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Post by Moose on Dec 29, 2015 21:58:53 GMT
The more that I think about it the more I am genuinely revolted that a person who counts their personal fortune in billions is so utterly desperate to keep the 'have nots' down.
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Post by whollygoats on Dec 29, 2015 22:09:47 GMT
The Berlin Wall kept East Germans out of West Germany... but that was slightly different. It worked mainly because East Germans were shot if they tried to climb over it. I had a friend who escaped over the Berlin Wall the day before it was closed to the public. No...The Berlin Wall did NOT keep East Berliners in East Berlin. Escapes Across the Berlin WallIt is estimated that some 5,000 East Germans exited through West Berlin during the 28 years the wall was up. Now, warranted, that is a huge reduction from the estimated 3.5 million Germans who migrated to West Germany from the end of the war up to the building of the Wall in 1961....but still, the Wall did NOT stop those fleeing the soviet. I would also note that the length of the Berlin Wall in enclosing West Berlin was 87 miles. That's 87 miles of patrolled fortifications inside a larger settled and hostile area. Now...The US-Mexico border, along which Trump is talking about building 'a wall' is 1,989 miles long, much of it desolate and unsettled desert. Good luck with that....
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Post by Moose on Dec 29, 2015 22:27:16 GMT
Well it certainly stopped them a little bit ... 5000 in 28 years is not that many. But the main point is that walls of any kind like this are wrong.
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Post by tangent on Dec 30, 2015 1:14:34 GMT
It is estimated that some 5,000 East Germans exited through West Berlin during the 28 years the wall was up. Now, warranted, that is a huge reduction from the estimated 3.5 million Germans who migrated to West Germany from the end of the war up to the building of the Wall in 1961....but still, the Wall did NOT stop those fleeing the soviet. I would say only 5000 shows it was effective. Granted some got through by their ingeniuty, one is not claiming 100% success, but close enough.
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Post by whollygoats on Dec 30, 2015 14:10:53 GMT
It is estimated that some 5,000 East Germans exited through West Berlin during the 28 years the wall was up. Now, warranted, that is a huge reduction from the estimated 3.5 million Germans who migrated to West Germany from the end of the war up to the building of the Wall in 1961....but still, the Wall did NOT stop those fleeing the soviet. I would say only 5000 shows it was effective. Granted some got through by their ingeniuty, one is not claiming 100% success, but close enough. It was so effective that it is still there, keeping East Germans from escaping in to West Germany.
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Post by tangent on Dec 30, 2015 21:03:27 GMT
It was so effective that it is still there, keeping East Germans from escaping in to West Germany. What?
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Post by whollygoats on Dec 30, 2015 22:29:12 GMT
It was so effective that it is still there, keeping East Germans from escaping in to West Germany. What? The Berlin Wall.
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Post by tangent on Dec 31, 2015 0:31:36 GMT
Why do you think the Berlin Wall is still keeping East Germans from escaping in to West Germany?
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Post by Moose on Dec 31, 2015 1:13:53 GMT
Yes I did wonder.
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Post by kingedmund on Dec 31, 2015 2:04:14 GMT
Fortunately you don't live close to that like i do. Those people that we call border trash are just that. There are good ones but the majority are not. They have no regard for others, they prefer lawlessness, they don't like adhering to anything other than what they can steal, they will flat out do bad things right in front of you. The ones that are good do their best to become legal. They are completely different than the ones from say Mexico City. Even my Mexican friends don't like the border ones because they cannot be trusted. It's just what they are taught. I cannot even begin to explain to you how bad it is. We r not talking about the one that try to escape from further south either. Rape is acceptable in their culture. Women are meant to be abused and used. Unless you live where I live you have no idea why the idea of a wall is so appealing (Granted its a great idea in theory) They see nothing wrong with this just to name a few bad qualities from border Mexicans.
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Post by kingedmund on Dec 31, 2015 2:11:17 GMT
Unless you live in Texas, Oklahoma, California, New Mexico, Arizona, or Colorado. You may never understand. They have opportunities to adjust. They get free healthcare, they get help with just about anything while remaining illegal. But they don't help themselves on purpose even when you give them the tools necessary. Again! Border ones is why the idea of a wall makes Trump popular.
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Post by whollygoats on Dec 31, 2015 4:45:10 GMT
Why do you think the Berlin Wall is still keeping East Germans from escaping in to West Germany? Because it is not. It's a snarky statement of total unreality. There is no East or West Germany, it is now only Germany. The Berlin Wall no longer exists as a wall to keep anyone anywhere. It was a totally losing prospect. It did not work and was abandoned. Walls will not work. If 87 miles of wall around a German city will not work, then most certainly a 2000 miles of wall ain't gonna do squat.
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Post by whollygoats on Dec 31, 2015 5:05:16 GMT
Unless you live in Texas, Oklahoma, California, New Mexico, Arizona, or Colorado. You may never understand. They have opportunities to adjust. They get free healthcare, they get help with just about anything while remaining illegal. But they don't help themselves on purpose even when you give them the tools necessary. Again! Border ones is why the idea of a wall makes Trump popular. So...People in those states have some kind of special knowledge? That they know how to tell the bad one from the good ones? Oklahoma ain't even a border state. My state is right next to one of those states. We have significant statewide populations of Hispanic peoples. Some are probably illegals. White Americans pay them better than they can make in their home countries; that's why they are here. Some adapt well, some do not. Rather like many of the typical Americans I see...particularly amongst those who support Trump.
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Post by tangent on Dec 31, 2015 14:04:19 GMT
It was so effective that it is still there, keeping East Germans from escaping in to West Germany. I'm sorry, I was genuinely confused into thinking you thought the Berlin Wall was stopping Germans travelling to West Germany.
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Post by Moose on Dec 31, 2015 19:05:41 GMT
I am a bit shocked by your comments Brett THere's a lot of generalisations there.
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Post by kingedmund on Jan 1, 2016 3:40:16 GMT
Sorry. I have been sick and am on all kinds of drugs at the moment. Unfortunately. I'm sure that is a mess of trying to rationalize and explain that probably didn't come out in typing correctly. Not that I like trump or any politician. But in thre somewhere I'm sure or say not all are bad influrnce but there is a larger amount that typically are. I. A perfect would this wall would work. But that is the problem. It's not a perfect world and you cannot filter people.
Can you believe I told my other half to put the cat out last night. We don't have a cat. In a few minutes I will be really wonky so I hope to be off here soon.
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Post by Kye on Jan 1, 2016 3:59:51 GMT
Take care of yourself, Brett --and Happy New Year! (When it arrives.)
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Post by Moose on Jan 1, 2016 17:33:37 GMT
LOL @ putting the cat out but yes, take care of yourself .
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Post by Moose on Jan 19, 2016 0:54:14 GMT
trump is apparently going to be allowed into the UK should he wish to grace us with his presence. I suppose that it's better really as not letting him in is just playing into his hands. I am genuinely frightened that this man might end up President though. I know people say it couldn't happen but what if it does?
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Post by tangent on Jan 19, 2016 9:45:14 GMT
It could happen because he has a lot of support, although I rather think Marco Rubio will take over in the later stages as he gets more publicity.
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Post by Alvamiga on Jan 19, 2016 18:26:27 GMT
Just shows how scary it can be when people vote for a party and not the people running.
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Post by Moose on Jan 19, 2016 23:28:08 GMT
Doesn't everyone do that?
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Post by Alvamiga on Jan 20, 2016 0:33:24 GMT
If I believe that a party is run by an incompetent idiot, I would potentially change my vote, rather than blindly voting for a party. It's harder in America with their two-party system though!
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Post by JoeP on Jan 20, 2016 20:40:44 GMT
Now Sarah Palin has announced support for Trump. Did you hear her? Fittingly, she sounds like a trumpet.
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Post by whollygoats on Jan 21, 2016 0:47:35 GMT
Yes. Tres strange. I think she brings a complete lock on the incoherent vote.
Oh, the strumpet gets even stranger.
The same day, her son, Track, assaults his girlfriend in a drunken rage, and waves around an assault rifle.
Palin blames Obama.
No, really.
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Post by juju on Jan 21, 2016 9:10:08 GMT
I read that.
'My son is a violent domestic abuser. Thanks, Obama'.
:/
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Post by Moose on Jan 21, 2016 20:19:36 GMT
Col actually told me that earlier when he was reading a news report. I genuinely thought it was from a satire site and did not believe him when he told me he was not.
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Post by tangent on Jan 21, 2016 22:46:35 GMT
Yes, I thought it was satire until I checked.
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Post by whollygoats on Jan 21, 2016 23:18:43 GMT
Warranted, it is most difficult to discern the difference.
I do not think less of any of you for being unable to do so.
I think a lot of the misunderstanding arises from the loss of context in translating from English to English.
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Post by Moose on Jan 22, 2016 2:31:34 GMT
On closer examination her son apparently had a criminal record before he joined the military. It is suggested that he only went INTO the military as an alternative to a jail sentence but I've not been able to verify that. What I have been able to verify, however, is that he did not see active combat.
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