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Post by jayme on Mar 23, 2019 0:08:24 GMT
Nothing has been released to the public yet, except that Mueller does not recommend any more indictments.
*pops corn and turns on the news*
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Post by JoeP on Mar 23, 2019 10:26:37 GMT
Won't your popcorn have to last for quite a long time, until some of it is actually made public?
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Post by Moose on Mar 23, 2019 21:45:35 GMT
I thought that there were not going to be any more prosecutions but I might be wrong
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Post by Alvamiga on Mar 23, 2019 23:09:13 GMT
There are still some investigations running and some will be handed over. I'm sure things could still go further from here.
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Post by jayme on Mar 23, 2019 23:18:00 GMT
Sorry guys. I'm eating all the popcorn I can, but nothing seems to be happening. *eats faster*
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Post by jayme on Mar 23, 2019 23:34:04 GMT
Won't your popcorn have to last for quite a long time, until some of it is actually made public? Am prepared to eat as much popcorn as it takes. *buys stock in Orville Redenbacher*
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Post by jayme on Mar 24, 2019 3:11:28 GMT
[a href="http:// "]linkInteresting Twitter thread[/a], if I can figure out how to post it.
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Post by whollygoats on Mar 24, 2019 23:40:15 GMT
All I have heard so far is that the present results are from a fairly circumscribed set of criteria. It sounds like insufficient evidence to proceed, at least with regards to 'Individual 1'.
I keep telling everyone that, the last I heard, there were sixteen more active investigations regarding Trump, his family, and his associates.
Deutsche Bank is just the latest in terms of the whole possibility of involvement in money laundering for foreign oligarchs.
And, now, the House gets to look in to aspects which the investigation purposefully avoided. Fun; another year plus of smears and countersmears. I'm hoping we can all hold out until he can be voted out of office and the real legal fun can begin....when he is no longer a 'sitting president' and more of an 'obviously bad precedent'.
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Post by Alvamiga on Mar 25, 2019 13:18:53 GMT
It shows how far people on both sides of the debate have their head shoved. Trump's Twitter feed is still largely split between those who think there's things to find and those who think he's totally clean.
Meanwhile, I'm having fun asking people what they think about the convictions that the investigation has turned up, which they seem to have mentally swept under the carpet.
It's a shame nothing was found insofar as it allows Trump to carry on his terrible presidency, but in many ways, it's still better that they haven't tried to stretch any evidence they may have found. Trump managed to drive his narrative that it was a fit-up job and has constantly trashed the investigation, but he now seems happy that it's more than 100% reliable, even going so far as to claim it exonerates him, when it explicitly does not.
There's still investigations in progress, but I think he's glad of the temporary break.
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Post by tangent on Mar 25, 2019 13:40:08 GMT
... even going so far as to claim it exonerates him, when it explicitly does not. His supporters believe the report completely vindicates him.
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Post by Alvamiga on Mar 25, 2019 14:25:40 GMT
Yes. He actually tweeted that it did yesterday. It's a big problem that people read what he says and ignore evidence to the contrary. Even the Daily Mail has run several headlines saying he's been cleared. It just shows how Trump can't say anything without embellishing it, even if it was already in his favour to begin with!
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Post by tangent on Mar 25, 2019 14:57:21 GMT
It's not so much Donald Trump they believe but the right wing press. If the media was more objective, Trump supporters would have a much more balanced view. In that respect, the media is the enemy of the people. That includes both right and left wing media imo.
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Post by Alvamiga on Mar 25, 2019 15:23:51 GMT
Trump is right, fake news is a problem. The issue comes form what is called fake news. There's fake news on both sides, but he can't legitimately complain about it when he's one of the worst proponents of it or benefits from it! If you're going to call it out, you have to call it all out!
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Post by whollygoats on Mar 25, 2019 19:14:13 GMT
Fake news is spelled 'Fox News'.
The bad precedent is THE major source of fake news. He spouts it incessantly.
If the media were more objective, Trump supporters would still be as dumb as a bag of hammers and still have a hideously unbalanced view of reality. They would not listen to anything other that what confirms their own biases...the fake news known as Fox News. It is Rupert Murdoch's curse upon the US.
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Post by tangent on Mar 26, 2019 0:35:42 GMT
I have met a Trump supporter in person. He was a company director in the UK and we used to have long talks mostly about UK politics at the gym I used to go to. He was far from being dumb. One day he told me he would have voted for Trump and that Hillary's downfall was her mishandling of her emails. I realize it's only one person but I think it's a mistake to assume all Trump supporters are stupid (or even that most of them are stupid). I would rather try to understand what makes them tick.
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Post by whollygoats on Mar 26, 2019 1:46:40 GMT
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Post by whollygoats on Mar 26, 2019 1:50:06 GMT
I have met a Trump supporter in person. He was a company director in the UK and we used to have long talks mostly about UK politics at the gym I used to go to. He was far from being dumb. One day he told me he would have voted for Trump and that Hillary's downfall was her mishandling of her emails. I realize it's only one person but I think it's a mistake to assume all Trump supporters are stupid (or even that most of them are stupid). I would rather try to understand what makes them tick. Excuse me, but his 'base' is white males with a high school education. He is a bigoted xenophobic plutocratic parasitic predator...one of all too many. Your acquaintance is an nitwit and changes nothing regarding what I think about supporters of the mango shitgibbon. As far as I'm concerned, your acquaintance was complicit in parasitic predation. What makes them tick is greed and hatred.
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Post by tangent on Mar 26, 2019 2:02:16 GMT
As far as I'm concerned, your acquaintance was complicit in parasitic predation. Maybe so but he was far from being dumb. And this is my point, once we dismiss people as merely being dumb and fail to understand their motives, we become ineffective in opposing them.
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Post by whollygoats on Mar 26, 2019 2:06:10 GMT
As far as I'm concerned, your acquaintance was complicit in parasitic predation. Maybe so but he was far from being dumb. And this is my point, once we dismiss people as merely being dumb and fail to understand their motives, we become ineffective in opposing them. Okay. Grifters and confidence men seem very bright, but they're actually not, largely because they prey upon those more gullible. Flim flam artists, glad-handers, and flatters. Good company, I hear. You don't understand. Being bright and voting for Trump indicates something much worse than stupidity. It implies amorality and malevolence.
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Post by whollygoats on Apr 20, 2019 16:36:10 GMT
Okay...So, it's the day after the DOJ turned their 'redacted' Mueller Report over to Congress and the public. This is an excellent analysis by Rachel Maddow. She hits strongly on an aspect I've been atuned to for a bit now...the Five Year Window. (I hope that works for those of you outside of North America.) My concern with a rush to impeachment (which I would absolutely love to see) is that if he is impeached, and is either convicted (unlikely), or resigns (far more likely), then Pence becomes president and can, like Ford did with Nixon, immediately pardon him and whomever. This would be a major frustration of justice and a shining beacon for the perpetuation of future corrupt officials. I want to see justice done and, as Maddow reports, there are no shortage of felonious actions by the current occupant of the office and he would be subject to criminal prosecution once he has been removed from office. I want to see his assets seized and him serve out the rest of his life in prison. He needs to be a glaring example of why confidence men should not engage in politics. That won't happen if Pence pardons him.
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Post by tangent on Apr 21, 2019 9:03:18 GMT
The idea of pardoning someone is fraught with difficulty.
In the UK, it is the standard policy of the Government to only grant pardons to those who are considered morally innocent of the offence, says Wikipedia, as opposed to those who may have been wrongly convicted by a misapplication of the law. I don't think Trump is morally innocent of anything.
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Post by whollygoats on Apr 21, 2019 14:58:43 GMT
Pardons in the US have nothing to do with 'moral innocence' or even 'legal innocence'.
Note that Nixon was hardly innocent of anything, yet got a blanket pardon of all crimes he committed as president. No 'innocence' at all.
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Post by Moose on Apr 22, 2019 2:49:55 GMT
I've met some Trump supporters who seemed to be modestly intelligent - though that is a problem in itself, because they should have some understanding of what they are supporting. Most of them, however, seem to be like Brexit supporters. The big elephant in the room is that people who voted for Trump and people who voted for Brexit have, on average, a lower IQ than those who did not. That does not mean that all of those people are stupid or that all who voted otherwise are intelligent. But it indicates something which is being ignored.
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Post by whollygoats on Apr 22, 2019 2:53:47 GMT
I still maintain that if a bright person supports Trump, then it is an indicator of something far worse than stupidity.
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Post by Moose on Apr 22, 2019 4:13:17 GMT
Which is essentially what I just said
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Post by tangent on Apr 22, 2019 19:21:15 GMT
I still maintain that if a bright person supports Trump, then it is an indicator of something far worse than stupidity. Something far worse? What exactly?
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Post by whollygoats on Apr 22, 2019 20:17:06 GMT
I still maintain that if a bright person supports Trump, then it is an indicator of something far worse than stupidity. Something far worse? What exactly? Malevolence. Greed. Bigotry. Corruption.
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Post by tangent on Apr 22, 2019 20:37:53 GMT
Yes, I'll go along with all those. I would add that there are plenty of nasty people who are also highly intelligent who support Donald Trump, such as Katie Hopkins.
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Post by whollygoats on May 22, 2020 21:51:46 GMT
And...on F******k, I ran across a post I agreed with.
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THIS WAS ON A FRIEND’S PAGE: An anguished question from a Trump supporter: ‘Why do liberals think Trump supporters are stupid?’
THE SERIOUS ANSWER: Here’s what the majority of anti-Trump voters honestly feel about Trump supporters en masse:
That when you saw a man who had owned a fraudulent University, intent on scamming poor people, you thought "Fine." (https://www.usatoday.com/…/trump-university-sett…/502387002/) That when you saw a man who had made it his business practice to stiff his creditors, you said, "Okay." (https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-hotel-paid-millions-in-…) That when you heard him proudly brag about his own history of sexual abuse, you said, "No problem." (https://abcnews.go.com/…/list-trumps-accusers-allega…/story…) That when he made up stories about seeing Muslim-Americans in the thousands cheering the destruction of the World Trade Center, you said, "Not an issue." (https://www.washingtonpost.com/…/donald-trumps-outrageous-…/) That when you saw him brag that he could shoot a man on Fifth Avenue and you wouldn't care, you exclaimed, "He sure knows me." (https://www.usatoday.com/…/president-donald-tru…/4073405002/) That when you heard him relating a story of an elderly guest of his country club, an 80-year old man, who fell off a stage and hit his head, to Trump replied: “‘Oh my God, that’s disgusting,’ and I turned away. I couldn’t—you know, he was right in front of me, and I turned away. I didn’t want to touch him. He was bleeding all over the place. And I felt terrible, because it was a beautiful white marble floor, and now it had changed color. Became very red.” You said, "That's cool!" (https://www.gq.com/story/donald-trump-howard-stern-story) That when you saw him mock the disabled, you thought it was the funniest thing you ever saw. (https://www.nbcnews.com/…/donald-trump-criticized-after-he-…) That when you heard him brag that he doesn't read books, you said, "Well, who has time?" (https://www.theatlantic.com/…/americas-first-post-t…/549794/) That when the Central Park Five were compensated as innocent men convicted of a crime they didn't commit, and he angrily said that they should still be in prison, you said, "That makes sense." (https://www.usatoday.com/…/what-trump-has-said-…/1501321001/) That when you heard him tell his supporters to beat up protesters and that he would hire attorneys, you thought, "Yes!" (https://www.latimes.com/…/la-na-trump-campaign-protests-201…) That when you heard him tell one rally to confiscate a man's coat before throwing him out into the freezing cold, you said, "What a great guy!" (https://www.independent.co.uk/…/donald-trump-orders-protest…) That you have watched the parade of neo-Nazis and white supremacists with whom he curries favor, while refusing to condemn outright Nazis, and you have said, "Thumbs up!" (https://www.theatlantic.com/…/why-cant-trump-just-c…/567320/) That you hear him unable to talk to foreign dignitaries without insulting their countries and demanding that they praise his electoral win, you said, "That's the way I want my President to be." (https://www.huffpost.com/…/trump-insult-foreign-countries-l…) That you have watched him remove expertise from all layers of government in favor of people who make money off of eliminating protections in the industries they're supposed to be regulating and you have said, "What a genius!" (https://www.politico.com/…/138-trump-policy-changes-2017-00…) That you have heard him continue to profit from his businesses, in part by leveraging his position as President, to the point of overcharging the Secret Service for space in the properties he owns, and you have said, "That's smart!" (https://www.usnews.com/…/how-is-donald-trump-profiting-from…) That you have heard him say that it was difficult to help Puerto Rico because it was in the middle of water and you have said, "That makes sense." (https://www.washingtonpost.com/…/the-very-big-ocean-betwee…/) That you have seen him start fights with every country from Canada to New Zealand while praising Russia and quote, "falling in love" with the dictator of North Korea, and you have said, "That's statesmanship!" (https://www.cnn.com/…/donald-trump-dictators-kim…/index.html) That Trump separated children from their families and put them in cages, managed to lose track of 1500 kids, has opened a tent city incarceration camp in the desert in Texas - he explains that they’re just “animals” - and you say, “Well, OK then.” (https://www.nbcnews.com/…/more-5-400-children-split-border-…) That you have witnessed all the thousand and one other manifestations of corruption and low moral character and outright animalistic rudeness and contempt for you, the working American voter, and you still show up grinning and wearing your MAGA hats and threatening to beat up anybody who says otherwise. (https://www.americanprogress.org/…/confronting-cost-trumps…/)
What you don't get, Trump supporters, is that our succumbing to frustration and shaking our heads, thinking of you as stupid, may very well be wrong and unhelpful, but it's also...hear me...charitable.
Because if you're NOT stupid, we must turn to other explanations, and most of them are less flattering.
- Adam-Troy Castro
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This is pretty much what I have been saying all along. I can bring to mind any number of additional violations of common decency perpetrated by Trump and his cronies.
And yet, you tell me these people are intelligent. So....Are they instead merely despicable exemplars of depravity?
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Post by kingedmund on May 30, 2020 19:08:31 GMT
Won't your popcorn have to last for quite a long time, until some of it is actually made public? Am prepared to eat as much popcorn as it takes. *buys stock in Orville Redenbacher* I need more popcorn. So I went to the store. The shelves were completely empty of popcorn and amazon and target are out. ...... Thanks Jayme.
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