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Post by Alvamiga on Nov 24, 2013 21:32:37 GMT
Took Honey out for a walk and managed to have a laugh. She was staring at something so intently that she walked square into a metal bollard. She wasn't going at any significant speed so she didn't hurt herself, but it did get her attention!
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Post by Moose on Nov 25, 2013 0:25:04 GMT
"The one thing I find most strange in retrospect is that immediately after, they seemed to be showing more reaction to what Honey had done than my concern for their child." Sweetie, do you really find that strange? Maybe I am less forgiving than some, having been bitten by a dog myself some years ago, but I must admit that if I had been out with a niece or nephew and a dog had snapped at them I would have been both furious and hugely concerned and I don't think that I would much care what the dog's owner felt or how they reacted. I know that you are a good and responsible dog owner but try and see it from their standpoint. Your dog bit their child. That's not acceptable.
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DGoeij
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Post by DGoeij on Nov 25, 2013 7:07:05 GMT
Not that odd a reaction. Most parents and carers tend to be rather defensive of their sprogs and rightly so. Seems they calmed down plenty afterwards not to wish any further action, but a good yelling at the time is understandable I'd say.
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Post by Alvamiga on Nov 25, 2013 8:31:49 GMT
I just meant they seemed to be ignoring if their kid was okay, when all that was happening was that I was asking them. Honey had stopped and they had not established it at that point. To me, that is odd!
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Post by JoeP on Nov 25, 2013 9:33:45 GMT
Took Honey out for a walk and managed to have a laugh. She was staring at something so intently that she walked square into a metal bollard. She wasn't going at any significant speed so she didn't hurt herself, but it did get her attention! It's no laughing matter Mr H. You clearly need to look after this dog more carefully while out!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2013 11:10:52 GMT
Sorry to hear about the whole thing. Our family dog Lizzy once bit a man's trousers when my mother was going on a walk with us and three cousins, one of them still a toddler. The elderly man made the mistake of stepping towards us and asking my mother something and Lizzy was always very protective of my mother and us. He was incredibly friendly and understanding, though. Said it was his mistake and even wanted to refuse the money my mother later offered him to pay for his trousers. In the end he took it, probably because my mother was feeling absolutely miserable and guilty.
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Post by Alvamiga on Nov 25, 2013 19:34:54 GMT
Took Honey out for a walk and managed to have a laugh. She was staring at something so intently that she walked square into a metal bollard. She wasn't going at any significant speed so she didn't hurt herself, but it did get her attention! It's no laughing matter Mr H. You clearly need to look after this dog more carefully while out! In this case it was just her not paying attention, which is very rare anyway. She was barely moving and the bollard just stopped her. If she had been walking fast enough to have hurt herself at all, I'd have prevented it. I do normally monitor everything around us and keep her under close control when anyone is about, especially the anxious-looking ones. The only reason she managed to nip the child is that it all happened so suddenly. I did not expect the child to dart across the road, straight at her, paying so little attention.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2013 23:20:31 GMT
Children and dogs can be a difficult combination.
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Post by tangent on Nov 25, 2013 23:52:34 GMT
I do normally monitor everything around us and keep her under close control when anyone is about, especially the anxious-looking ones. The only reason she managed to nip the child is that it all happened so suddenly. I did not expect the child to dart across the road, straight at her, paying so little attention. This is why I think neither you nor Honey were to blame.
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Post by Mari on Nov 26, 2013 23:32:05 GMT
I just meant they seemed to be ignoring if their kid was okay, when all that was happening was that I was asking them. Honey had stopped and they had not established it at that point. To me, that is odd! Was the kid crying?
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Post by Alvamiga on Nov 27, 2013 8:02:03 GMT
The kids was wailing, but it's hard to tell round that age. I've seen kids screaming more than that because they've had a pencil taken by a sibling. Couldn't tell it he'd been hurt or or was just panicking because Honey had nipped at him.
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Post by tangent on Nov 27, 2013 17:44:44 GMT
If I had been the dog, I would have bitten his parents.
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Post by Mari on Nov 27, 2013 18:50:40 GMT
Why?
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Post by tangent on Nov 27, 2013 20:28:46 GMT
They didn't teach their child either road safety or dog safety; and they blamed others for their own failings.
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Post by Alvamiga on Nov 27, 2013 21:05:17 GMT
I don't think it's entirely as clean cut as that. I first read that as "If it had been me, I'd have bitten the parents" Not sure I'd fancy explaining that to the police!
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Post by spaceflower on Nov 28, 2013 3:36:57 GMT
I think it is totally understandable how the dog acted. People demand too much of dogs, they are supposed to never bite or even nip but at the same time we want them to defend us when needed. They are animals, not human beings.
I blame the parents for not teaching their child not to run towards an unknown dog like that.
But luckily noone was seriously hurt. Is Honey a big dog?
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Post by Alvamiga on Nov 28, 2013 8:16:39 GMT
Honey is knee-height to me. There are several, much larger, dogs on the estate.
I did not get Honey for protection and have always discouraged any aggressive tendencies. Being part Alsatian, she has natural defensive instincts, but also a higher level of intelligence.
She barks if strangers come into the house, but given a couple of minutes to establish that they are not a threat she will be accepting and friendly. When out and about, she is normally friendly and now only usually reacts to other dogs being hostile to her first.
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Post by spaceflower on Nov 28, 2013 23:11:03 GMT
Even dogs which are not bred to defend, have such an instinct. And what's wrong with that, human beings also have this instinct to defend themselves and their pack/family. Puppies bite in play also. The trouble is that human skin is so thin.
My dog bit a child in the head (no blood) in play when she was a puppy. "I don't mind", said the boy (about 7 years old). But I was thankful his mother was not nearby. "Hope we see each other again", the boy said when we went. "Not if I see you first", I thought.
I think unstable dogs which easily bite do it from anxiety more than aggression.
The Alsatian/German shephard is sheepdog from beginning so they tend to be very cooperative to their owners. Sharp, but only on command, that's the ideal police dog. I always look at them with awe.
When my dog was a puppy a neigbour said to me when she barked "you must stop that now or she will always do it". I did not know how to stop her and I also thought that this is her instinct, these types of dogs were bred and used to warn that someone is coming.
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Post by Alvamiga on Nov 29, 2013 7:48:04 GMT
One of my neighbours has two Alsation crossed dogs and they bark at almost anything... endlessly. I am sure that if we'd put in a massive amount of work we could have stopped her barking sooner, but she has all but stopped naturally just by being discouraged when she does. The last bit is always the hardest; discouraging her from doing something she hardly ever does...
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Post by Thingy on Nov 29, 2013 10:12:34 GMT
Gads Alva, what a horrible experience! It never ceases to amaze me how stupid some people can be around animals. I'm glad it has all died down but one wonders what the outcome would be if the parents did decide to pursue it. So many innocent dogs destroyed because people can't read the signals and expect all animals to see the world as we do. It makes me so angry. I've got mixed feelings about muzzles. I muzzle my two greyhounds when we're out, not because they'll bite, but just in case their prey instinct kicks in if we meet a small dog or cat and I've noticed that strangers will always give them a wide berth. If they're not muzzled people walk up and want to speak to them. I would be cautious approaching a muzzled dog that I didn't know and I suspect that my anxiety would be picked up by the dog and cause an anxious reaction in him. Too much of that and the dog will bite. It's a tricky one.
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Post by Alvamiga on Nov 29, 2013 12:32:07 GMT
According to the police officer I spoke to, from the damage done, the fact she was otherwise under control and so on, they would have not had sufficient grounds to push it forward, even if they had wanted to.
I agree about people's reactions to muzzled dogs. People automatically assume the worst if they see them and it affects their reactions to you, also.
There is a greyhound owner on my estate who also has his dog muzzled because of the instinct to chase cats (and potentially worse).
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Post by Mari on Nov 30, 2013 9:54:33 GMT
You're all assuming the parents didn't teach the child properly or didn't react right, but let's evaluate: the kid ran towards Honey, the parents yelled out to the kid who didn't stop. Honey nipped the kid who came towards her in a threatening pose and the parents got angry at Alva and Honey first, but calmed down in a bit. There is nothing here that says they are bad parents or whatever. It suggests the kid didn't listen, got nipped and the parents got a scare. This scare they directed towards Alva and Honey, easy targets in this case, justified or not. It's just normal human nature.
So can we stop 'attacking' these parents who aren't here to defend themselves?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2013 8:57:52 GMT
So can we stop 'attacking' these parents who aren't here to defend themselves? I have to admit that I agree even though I love dogs and think that humans are often stupid around them. But a child running up to a dog and the dog feeling threatened and nipping it is just a stupid accident and nobody's fault.
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Post by juju on Jan 6, 2014 18:01:33 GMT
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Post by JoeP on Jan 8, 2014 11:43:50 GMT
It does seem as though they could have chosen something less appealing.
A collar with sharp spikes on it is the traditional dangerous dog symbol, isn't it?
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Post by Alvamiga on Jan 8, 2014 12:33:53 GMT
I agree that the yellow "ribbon" is a very bad choice of colour. Honey has bright yellow on her in the dark and at dusk. It is a safety measure to ensure that she is seen. I would not have thought it was anything but that.
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Post by Moose on Jan 8, 2014 18:36:21 GMT
It means that the dog is easily spooked and not to approach doesn't it? My general rule of thumb is to NEVER pet a strange dog without asking its owners first. If I did so and got nipped, I'd consider it entirely my fault.
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Post by Alvamiga on Jan 8, 2014 19:51:37 GMT
I have asked several people about the yellow ribbon thing. None of them knew what it meant and they all thought it was a very bad choice of colour. Not a good start!
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Post by Moose on Jan 8, 2014 20:02:13 GMT
I actually only learned about it fairly recently, read it somewhere. Really though people just should not pet strange dogs at all.
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Post by Alvamiga on Jan 8, 2014 20:04:43 GMT
I agree that people should not approach any dog like that, regardless of this kind of thing, but a lot of the people I spoke to I think would actually be more inclined to approach a dog with a "pretty ribbon" on it!
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