|
WW1
Aug 4, 2014 20:23:33 GMT
Post by Moose on Aug 4, 2014 20:23:33 GMT
As I guess most people know, this is the anniversary (one hundredth) of the start of World War One. I am not entirely sure what to say about it, other than that humanity never ever seems to learn and that innocent young people suffer and die because we don't know how to get along with one another. I actually just finished reading a novel (Rilla of Ingleside) which dealt with the outbreak of the Great War and the decision of many Canadian boys - and they WERE boys - to voluntarily join up and fight on behalf of a country most of them had never seen. I grew up learning about both World Wars in school. I do not want any other young men - or women - to ever lose their lives in such a way again.
I know that they will.
|
|
Kate
Junior lady
Posts: 381
|
Post by Kate on Aug 4, 2014 20:42:01 GMT
Such a touching post and it's sad to think that his will happen again; this was the war to end all wars. I just wish that every country didn't have to resort to fighting.
|
|
|
WW1
Aug 4, 2014 20:54:36 GMT
Post by Moose on Aug 4, 2014 20:54:36 GMT
Me too. It seems so easy in some respects - I mean, if every single person refused to fight then the leaders who WANTED fighting could just get together and have a boxing match to solve their differences. I realise how naive that is though, and that probably the evolutionary processes that put this particular species of 'hairless bipeds' at the top of the evolutionary pile is the same process that means that we cannot get along with one another (does that make sense? I am not sure if it does but I know what I mean. I guess paraphrased I mean that in order for human beings to have got 'to the top' we must have had to be more ruthless and violent than any other species; even competing species of hominids). And so we fight and people die and .. I wish that we did not.
|
|
|
WW1
Aug 4, 2014 21:07:29 GMT
Post by ProdigalAlan on Aug 4, 2014 21:07:29 GMT
Well all I can say is that so long as we have people (call 'em people A) who believe that other people (call 'em people B) have no right to live and must be eradicated from the face of the earth, we'll need to accept the option of warfare.
It shouldn't be that way but it is.
What really annoys me with all the hoo-ha about WWI is that the royal family has once again failed to publicly apologise for their family's actions in starting the whole damn thing.
|
|
|
WW1
Aug 4, 2014 21:12:28 GMT
Post by Moose on Aug 4, 2014 21:12:28 GMT
Didn't realise that they DID start the whole thing
|
|
|
WW1
Aug 5, 2014 9:52:45 GMT
Post by ProdigalAlan on Aug 5, 2014 9:52:45 GMT
There were three ruling dynasties. They were the British king and his two cousins, The German kaiser and the Russian czar.
Russia had made an alliance with France and had a tentative alliance with Britain. France and Britain were united by the entente cordial.
Germany was allied with the Austro-Hungarian empire. Effectively Germany was surrounded by hostile forces, France and Britain to the left and Russia to the right.
When Arch Duke Ferdinand was assassinated it left the Austro-Hungarian empire weakened, Russia made hostile moves on Serbia and the Kaiser embarked on war.
They were all the grandchildren of Victoria.
|
|
|
WW1
Aug 5, 2014 14:24:38 GMT
Post by spaceflower on Aug 5, 2014 14:24:38 GMT
I've wondered that nobody has started at thread about "The Great War" but did not want to start one myself. This war was the origin of the next world war. The treaty of Versailles said that Germany was the only guilty party.
There was a certain Adolf serving in the war. He fled from Austria to get away from the conscription but in Munich 1914 he enrolled the German army. He used the war and painted him self as a war hero in his propaganda later. He served as a courier, not as dangerous as being a solder in the trenches but not safe (he was wounded twice). He was above all near the staff. A Jewish officer, Hugo Gutmann at the staff nominated Hitler to the Iron Cross. (Later Gutmann was arrested by the Nazis, they did not want this story to leak out. After two months in prison he was released and able to emigrate to the USA. He changed his surname out of fear for Hitler's agents.)
Was Germany really the only responsible for the WW1? I don't know enough about this but find it hard to believe. (The WWW2 is another story, then I find Germany (the Nazis) the guilty party.)
|
|
|
WW1
Aug 5, 2014 17:59:07 GMT
Post by Moose on Aug 5, 2014 17:59:07 GMT
Yes it's kinda hard to blame anyone else for WWII
|
|
|
WW1
Aug 6, 2014 1:05:15 GMT
Post by ProdigalAlan on Aug 6, 2014 1:05:15 GMT
Was Germany really the only responsible for the WW1? I don't know enough about this but find it hard to believe. (The WWW2 is another story, then I find Germany (the Nazis) the guilty party.) By no means. Nicholas the Russian czar has to be held just as culpable. The Russian/Japanese war was proof that he was utterly inept in all military matters and that he had no scruples about sacrificing the lives of his own people for no good cause. It was Nicholas who escalated matters after the death of arch-duke Ferdinand by placing troops on the Serbian border and provoking Willhelm into aggressive action. It was a different story for France. They found themselves under unprovoked attack from Germany and had to respond. The entente cordial demanded that Britain support them (which they did) as well as the Russian/British alliance. If there was a real bogey man on the scene it was the Russian czar. But the stupidity of the support for the czar from the British throne cannot by ignored, nor can the kaiser's desire to expand his empire be ignored. This war was caused by three outrageous egomaniacs, all of them were Victoria's grandchildren and all of them were sitting on the thrones of their empires. Not one of them gave a damn for the people they sent to die.
|
|
|
WW1
Aug 6, 2014 1:09:33 GMT
Post by Moose on Aug 6, 2014 1:09:33 GMT
Does any leader ever give a damn for the people they send to die?
God, European royalty isn't half inbred tho.
|
|
|
WW1
Aug 6, 2014 13:31:24 GMT
Post by tangent on Aug 6, 2014 13:31:24 GMT
This war was caused by three outrageous egomaniacs, all of them were Victoria's grandchildren and all of them were sitting on the thrones of their empires. Not one of them gave a damn for the people they sent to die. Which three are those? Wilhelm II of Germany and King George V were Victoria's grandchildren but not Nicholas II, the Russian Tsar. As for King George V being an egomaniac, history would suggest otherwise. H. G. Wells called him "alien and uninspiring," to which George replied, "I may be uninspiring, but I'll be damned if I'm alien." That doesn't sound like the voice of an egomoniac to me. In any case, he didn't have the guts to start a war, he was an inexperienced king and acted on the advice of his advisors.
|
|
|
WW1
Aug 6, 2014 15:13:21 GMT
Post by ProdigalAlan on Aug 6, 2014 15:13:21 GMT
Yes you're right - Nicholas wasn't Victoria's grandson but he and George were first cousins.
As for not starting a war, well he was probably the one person who could have stopped it. He was the one person Nicholas was listening to. He could have told Nicholas to withdraw his troops from the Serbian border. Instead he and Nicholas saw an opportunity to expand their empires into Central Europe. All it would cost was the lives of millions of Russian and British subjects as well as the masses of France.
All he had to do to save those lives was tell Nicholas to withdraw.
|
|
|
WW1
Aug 6, 2014 21:33:48 GMT
Post by jayme on Aug 6, 2014 21:33:48 GMT
Yes you're right - Nicholas wasn't Victoria's grandson but he and George were first cousins. Nicholas was her grandson-in-law. Czarina Alexandra was Victoria's granddaughter.
|
|
|
WW1
Aug 6, 2014 21:50:54 GMT
Post by tangent on Aug 6, 2014 21:50:54 GMT
All he had to do to save those lives was tell Nicholas to withdraw. Theoretically, yes, just like the Queen could have stopped us going into Europe or put a halt to the Falklands war.
|
|
|
WW1
Aug 7, 2014 9:00:07 GMT
Post by ProdigalAlan on Aug 7, 2014 9:00:07 GMT
No they were very close friends. Their families had spent many, many holidays together in Denmark. George was the one person who Nicholas turned to for advice. When the Romanov family was in danger it was to George he turned to for sanctuary.
|
|
|
WW1
Aug 7, 2014 12:23:43 GMT
Post by tangent on Aug 7, 2014 12:23:43 GMT
I see, so perhaps they should have been friends with Wilhelm and then the First World War wouldn't have started.
|
|
|
WW1
Aug 7, 2014 19:10:42 GMT
Post by ProdigalAlan on Aug 7, 2014 19:10:42 GMT
It certainly would have helped if he had been better received by Edward VII.
After the German invasion of Denmark it's generally held that the family holidays organised by Edward's wife and her sister had an anti-German aspect. Willhelm was never invited.
WWI had many aspects of a family argument gone wrong and in which the ordinary men and women of Europe were sacrificed to prove a point to other members of the family. (In saying that I fully acknowledge the sacrifices of the men and women from outside of Europe who came to fight).
|
|