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Post by Moose on Aug 4, 2014 22:02:05 GMT
We discussed this one the old EF but many years ago and today's anniversary has made me think of it again. I do not want to look up how many soldiers were shot for desertion. I do know that it was a minority of all those who defected but it still happened. I know what the justification was. I also know that a good deal of the justification comes from people who were not there and had no idea of what these young men experienced.
Question: do people voluntarily join the military because they are unfeeling assholes or does the military turn them into unfeeling assholes?
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Post by tangent on Aug 4, 2014 22:39:57 GMT
I'm sure the reasons for desertion are many and varied (or 'manifold' as the 1662 Prayer Book would say) which makes a judgement decision on this issue almost impossible unless you have a blanket ban.
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Post by Moose on Aug 4, 2014 22:44:55 GMT
Then a blanket ban it should be.
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Post by tangent on Aug 5, 2014 4:16:10 GMT
Yes, I agree, that's what we would say today but had we been born 100 years earlier, in 1844 instead of 1944 in my case, our answers would proably have been very different. With today's values, we would say a blanket ban, but with values shaped by society 100 years ago, we would probably have considered the punishment to be right and just.
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Post by Mari on Aug 5, 2014 9:45:32 GMT
Keep in mind that nationalism and the ideal of dying honourably for your country isn't anywhere near as strong as it used to be (though I suppose the US has upheld these values).
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Post by ProdigalAlan on Aug 5, 2014 9:56:01 GMT
Question: do people voluntarily join the military because they are unfeeling assholes or does the military turn them into unfeeling assholes? I really can't accept that everyone who takes the queen's shilling is an unfeeling person.
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Post by juju on Aug 5, 2014 11:01:51 GMT
I suppose in a way their job is to be unfeeling, or no-one would would be able to kill anybody. But that doesn't mean they really ARE unfeeling... hence the high incidence of PTSD in ex soldiers.
I suppose the rationale behind shooting people for desertion was to make an example of them. If they didn't, they'd get huge numbers of conscripted soldiers saying '**** this for a game of soldiers' - literally. That doesn't make it right though.
These days the military are there by choice so I guess it's different.
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Post by jayme on Aug 5, 2014 11:17:14 GMT
Question: do people voluntarily join the military because they are unfeeling assholes or does the military turn them into unfeeling assholes? The way you keep throwing around this term "unfeeling assholes" leads me to believe you don't have Taco Bell in England.
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Post by Moose on Aug 5, 2014 17:54:12 GMT
Yeah I am generalising. I just think it must be quite difficult to keep a sense of perspective when part of the way you earn your living has to include being prepared to kill people.
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