Kate
Junior lady
Posts: 381
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Post by Kate on Sept 26, 2015 8:17:59 GMT
Some friends of mine who also support Labour (the left wing party) and I were invited to an event hosted by the Conservatives to try and promote 'political mixing'. I have to say it was an odd evening; I tried not to be too judgemental of their views without first understanding why they thought that, and I was presently surprised to find out that some of them actually supported things like immigration.
Anyway it was a good evening and I'm glad that I can still have friends of other political back grounds.
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Post by raspberrybullets on Sept 26, 2015 10:44:58 GMT
Well that sounds quite nice and friendly. I am obviously coloured by the goings on in this country because I was thinking to myself there already is too much labour and liberal mixing and they've ended up being the same bunch of conservative arsewipes in this country. I don't vote for either party. But your mixing sounds better.
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Post by tangent on Sept 26, 2015 23:20:01 GMT
I don't understand how Labour can mix with Conservatives.
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Kate
Junior lady
Posts: 381
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Post by Kate on Sept 27, 2015 13:31:07 GMT
Good point, neither did I really until I went. The section of the table I was sitting at were very friendly and we all discussed our views and why we think how we do etc.
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Post by tangent on Sept 27, 2015 14:09:30 GMT
It's great that you can mix with people and exchange views.
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Post by Moose on Sept 27, 2015 22:01:11 GMT
Why don't you understand how Labour can mix with Conservatives? Alan is a Tory - i do not agree with him politically but I have no problem calling him a good friend.
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Post by tangent on Sept 28, 2015 4:14:49 GMT
Ah yes, Labour supporters can mix with Conservative supporters but the two parties cannot mix.
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Post by raspberrybullets on Sept 28, 2015 8:32:23 GMT
They can become too much like each other, which is essentially like mixing. That's what has happened here.
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Post by ProdigalAlan on Sept 29, 2015 9:46:05 GMT
Of course the two parties can and do both mix with each other and jointly cooperate with each other. There are many note able examples of this. Probably the most high profile example would be the Northern Ireland negotiations. It was shepherded in by John Major and consolidated by Tony Blair in the 'Good Friday Agreement'.
There only exists division amongst people who see politics through the lens of caricatures. In other words the old Orwellian 'Four Legs Good, Two Legs Bad' dictat.
We all agree about what needs to be done, it's the methods to effect change that are at issue.
Like most Conservatives, I believe in a low taxation, high opportunity state that supports the vulnerable and disadvantaged. I believe that the future of this country is firmly within, and actively working with, the European Union. I genuinely believe that people should support themselves, and be able to retain enough of their income to support themselves. Where that is not possible we provide support until such time as people can support themselves. I also believe that we , as individuals, have a duty to take responsibility for our own actions and welfare.
You won't find many Labour politicians arguing against what I believe in. It's the methods of achieving this state that is an area of disagreement.
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Post by Moose on Sept 29, 2015 16:00:43 GMT
The only line I would draw is with very far right politics. I'd find it very difficult to be friends with someone who sincerely shared BNP values, for instance.
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Post by tangent on Sept 29, 2015 17:21:25 GMT
Would you also draw the line at a Marxist?
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Post by juju on Sept 29, 2015 18:01:55 GMT
I would find a Marxist far less repugnant than someone from the far right. Marxism is not necessarily communism, anyway.
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Post by ProdigalAlan on Sept 29, 2015 21:25:17 GMT
You see the trouble is, I don't know of Marxist state, that did not systematically assassinate opposition.
Now I'll have a laugh and a joke with a wide variety of Labour supporters but those who propose or support the assassination of political opposition - I don't want to be in the same county that they drink in.
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Post by Moose on Sept 29, 2015 23:37:39 GMT
What Julie said. And Marxism actually was intended to help people. Unfortunately it didn't but it's not the same as Nazism, even though unfortunately some of the regimes that embraced it ended up as bad(and it could even be argued that Marxism SPAWNED Nazism). But far Leftists, though I don't agree with them either, don't seem to hate minorities in the same way. Though they hate a fair few people I guess
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Post by Moose on Sept 29, 2015 23:42:11 GMT
In my final year of university, I was offered the option of dropping one course in place of instead writing a dissertation (MINI dissertation .. not thesis length obviously). This could be on any subject whatsoever that was even vaguely related to the classes we were taking, as long as it was approved. I was seriously tempted to write mine on the impact that Marxism had had on twentieth century Europe, including the rise of both fascism and Nazism and up to the anti communist frenzy in the US during the fifties. In the end I decide to write about SHakespeare. I think, though, that the former would have been an interesting thing to research and maybe I will one day, just for my own amusement.
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Post by juju on Oct 2, 2015 23:26:18 GMT
My husband teaches Marxism to philosophy and archaeology students. Marxism is an important philosophy because it addresses the idea of fundamental inequalities both historically and presently - Marxist historians look at the story of the working classes and their struggles, which are traditionally left out of the canon of history books. Bottom up history is just as important as top down.
Marx talked about how the proletariat were alienated and excluded from the products of their labours. You only have to look at what rampant, unregulated corporate capitalism is doing now to realise he had a point.
However, Soviet style communism was far more militant than what Marx himself would have advocated, and he never predicted a revolution in Russia.
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