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Post by Moose on Apr 10, 2017 19:34:04 GMT
I've seen people say that they think that the sabre rattling between Russia and the US is staged to cover the links between the two countries. I am not so sure. I do believe that there were links but I suspect that Putin was simply playing Trump like the proverbial violin and had no actual loyalty towards him. I am frightened of what is going to happen next.
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Post by tangent on Apr 10, 2017 20:02:39 GMT
I've seen people say that they think that the sabre rattling between Russia and the US is staged to cover the links between the two countries. A conspiracy theory if ever there was one
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Post by Moose on Apr 10, 2017 21:59:30 GMT
Well it's not a theory that I buy into but I can see why people might think that. I think it's more likely, however, that there were ties between Russia and Trump and Trump rather naively thought that that meant that he had Russia dancing to his tune.
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Post by whollygoats on Apr 11, 2017 1:17:29 GMT
Well, there sure was a lot of theorizing going on prior to this sarin gas release in Syria.
It sure is interesting that it was an attack on an air field used by both Syrian and Russian forces.
It sure is interesting that when the 59 Tomahawk missiles arrived there was not much there of military importance, as the Syrian forces, warned by the Russian sources, who had been advised by US forces that they would be attacking the airfield, moved anything of real import to another site before the attack took place.
Russian military aircraft were using the airfield 18 hours following the Tomahawk attack.
Suddenly, the US media isn't paying as much attention to the 'Russian connection' investigations just gearing up. The Warhawks in the Senate, McCain and Graham, are ebullient. Raytheon stock is soaring in to the stratosphere and bigly stock-holder, #45, evidently has damp underwear at his earnings.
The attacks were perpetrated without any consultation with _any_ Congressional source. They are illicit in more ways than one.
It certainly looks to me as though a president pressed by events connecting him to a foreign power utilized an incident on foreign soil offering 'moral indignation' points, so they spoke to their Russian contacts and told them they needed a nifty distraction which would cast a pall on the overly friendly relationships between the new administration and the Russian power structure. Russians/Syrians/Blackwater operatives release the sarin, Putin accommodated the US 'demand' to retaliate, informed the Syrians, who moved their good stuff out of the way, the US Navy had an explosive orgasm of firepower without much real effect, and now Russia is posturing as expected. All in a day's scam.
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Post by whollygoats on Apr 11, 2017 1:29:30 GMT
Excuse me, but these are the same people who lied to the US public about 'Weapons of Mass Destruction' in Iraq as a pretext of invading that nation. Twice. To disastrous results.
These are the same people who sold missiles to the Republican Guard terrorist fanatics in Iran to finance their own dirty little war butchering nuns in El Salvador.
These are the same people who decided to unilaterally secretly bomb a neutral nation, bringing down the stable government there and cravenly induce one of the world's worst slaughters of millions of innocents.
These are the people who brought you the overthrow of a free-elected government and then placed on the throne one of the most venal and brutal dictators of modern times. Twice. In places half a world away and twenty years apart.
These people brought you banana republic suppression in Central America, the overthrow of elected governments in Chile and Iran, bombing of Cambodia and the inception of the Pol Pot's hideous regime, and the perfidy of Oliver North. 'Enhanced interrogation' and 'extraordinary renditon', along with Abu Gharib, Guantanamo Bay, and innumerable 'black site' prisons scattered from Poland, to Jordan, to Uzbekistan. These people hire people like Blackwater...mercenaries.
Don't sniff at me and tell me that these kinds of things are "mere conspiracy theories". These people are amoral monsters who will stoop to anything to line their pockets with more blood money. To excuse these possibilities is to be complicit in their crimes against humanity. And against decency. I offer up Dick Cheney as an example.
For you Brits...Just think about Tony Blair. Or Margaret Thatcher. You have yours.
#45 is all that, over the top.....It's "Team America" as a 'reality show'.
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Post by whollygoats on Apr 11, 2017 2:06:48 GMT
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Post by Miisa on Apr 11, 2017 5:21:06 GMT
Living so near to Russia it always looms overhead. I had always figured that of course Russia/Putin would try to influence the election, and with things being digital it is so much easier now, but as it was not talked about right after the election I assumed that the possibility had already been firmly ruled out. When the fuss started well after the election I was in disbelief that it seemed to be something that came as a surprise to the American public and worse, to the government. Of course Putin would want an easily controllable reaction machine in office than an experienced politician who is more difficult to manipulate, and he has the ego, ruthlessness and means to pull off a major hack.
Never for a moment think that Trump has any idea what he is doing in his relationships with the leaders of other countries. The current variation of the old saying is that Putin is playing chess while Trump is playing tic-tac-toe (rather than the more traditional checkers).
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Post by tangent on Apr 11, 2017 5:41:15 GMT
Never for a moment think that Trump has any idea what he is doing in his relationships with the leaders of other countries. The current variation of the old saying is that Putin is playing chess while Trump is playing tic-tac-toe (rather than the more traditional checkers). I would agree with you but this time his tactics seem to have paid off. Putin has suffered a blow whilst in August 2013, when Assad previously used chemical weapons, Putin out maneuvered Obama. In 2013, Obama dithered whilst Putin gained the moral authority by persuading Assad to destroy his weapons. This time, Trump's brute force has won him international praise. It's a dangerous world we're living in.
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Post by Miisa on Apr 11, 2017 6:25:52 GMT
It isn't over yet. One thing I have learned is never underestimate Putin's long game. Though it is of course possible that his megalomania has overpowered his craftiness at this point.
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Post by Moose on Apr 12, 2017 22:24:59 GMT
I agree with Miisa. I just don't think that Trump is an intelligent man and I think that he is arrogant enough that he is not prepared to listen to the advice of more intelligent people. I think that Putin is playing him and it's entirely possible BOTH that Russia interfered in the election and also that there might be war between them now.
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Post by whollygoats on Apr 12, 2017 22:31:14 GMT
I think the entire current administration should fall and be replaced with some kind of 'caretaker' government.
The entire edifice is contaminated by interests contrary to those of the nation. They are all complicit. McConnell and Ryan are the worst of the lot, in that they have some idea of what it is they are doing and how they are using the confused stupidity of the administration to completely fuck over their political opponents. They don't seem to care that in doing so, they are selling out the security and financial interests of the public.
This is the situation for which the term 'clusterfuck' was invented.
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Post by Moose on Apr 12, 2017 23:15:57 GMT
This.
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