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Post by whollygoats on Apr 6, 2020 15:14:55 GMT
"But not Finland."
Living cheek by jowl with the Soviets, then the Rooskies, will do that to a people. Oh, and then there was the unfortunate experience with the Swedes.
Y'know...The Romani might not have drifted that far north if the goddamned Goths had stayed in place. You people in Sweden and the Nordic countries have made it an ongoing project to move your people in to the countries of other peoples all over the stinking globe. Except, unlike the Romani, when your people got to wherever, they butchered the natives and stole everything of value.
I personally don't think you have any goddamn excuse condemning the Romani. And, I think you, spaceflower, are a screaming racist.
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Post by spaceflower on Apr 6, 2020 16:05:18 GMT
And you are a grumpy and nasty old man who prefers slandering instead of logical arguments.
I would have nothing against Romanian gipsies if they would not sit outside every grocery shop demanding money. The fact is, they earn more money here by begging than working at home. Some do-gooders give them money. But they are hated by many. So much that teenage boys beat one to death. (He was not a gipsy but Romanian.) A terrible story. One was 14, he was not punished at all. One was 16, he got a very mild punishment. This one was an alcoholic and he never went to the police although he was harassed.
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Post by whollygoats on Apr 6, 2020 16:12:01 GMT
Thanks for the confirmation, spaceflower. It is not slander if it is accurate....which you just confirmed.
Wow...panhandling outside the market. Yeah, that sounds just the same as a bunch of vikings butchering total innocents, pillaging their homesteads, and hauling all the wealth back to Sweden. That your racists beat to death a Romanian, probably under the assumption he was Romani, just reinforces my claim of rampant raging racism in Sweden. You are probably alluding to the fact that if the poor Romanian had not been in Sweden to have been mistaken for a Romani, by a gang of Swedish reprobates, he wouldn't have been hurt. That sounds to me like a really limp excuse to send an entire group of people packing from your country. A really limp, racist, excuse.
And, for you to think that you are advancing 'logical arguments' (contrary to my rhetorical ones) is preposterous to the extreme. Your arguments are no more 'logical' than mine.
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Post by spaceflower on Apr 6, 2020 16:26:20 GMT
It is always a danger sleeping outdoors. He would have been better off at home, even if he was unemployed. He did not even have any contact with his family.
We already have a lot of unemployed refugees to support, many from Iraq (thank you for this, USA). So why should we support EU-citizens who cannot work to support themselves. They are not educated enough to get jobs in Sweden. Romania has received a lot of money from both EU and Sweden to take of the gipsys and give them proper schooling.
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Post by whollygoats on Apr 6, 2020 16:36:04 GMT
**FACEPALM**
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Post by tangent on Apr 6, 2020 18:36:20 GMT
I have moved these posts to a separate thread. They represent verbal attacks that are not welcome on this forum and are not tolerated on most forums. (See for example the code of conduct on this forum.) I personally don't think you have any goddamn excuse condemning the Romani. And, I think you, spaceflower, are a screaming racist. WG, you have many times subjected spaceflower to personal remarks and have accused her frequently of being a racist. Please don't subject to any more harassment or personal remarks. spaceflower, you should carefully consider whether the following is veiled racism: Besides from the "Swedish" homeless there are also the Romanian gipsies who come here to beg. We don't have any obligations to give them dwelling places but charity organisations help them. The best thing for them is to return to Romania and many of them already have done so.
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Post by spaceflower on Apr 6, 2020 23:54:06 GMT
How can it be racism to say that the state has a duty to take care of its own citizens (and those who have residence permits) but no obligation to take care of other countries' citizen? Legally they have no right to stay here over three months if they cannot support themselves.
Sweden pays a big sum to EU yearly and will have to pay an even bigger sum now that UK has left EU.
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Post by tangent on Apr 7, 2020 0:19:05 GMT
That is a strawman.
People have been saying, "go back to where you came from," for decades. Your statement, "the best thing for them is to return to Romania," is a veiled suggestion that they should go back to where they came from, and I'm afraid that is racist.
WG wasn't entitled to turn this into a personal attack but he was entitled to say that your statement might be construed as racist.
I don't want to turn this into a quarrel about what you said. As moderator, I have a duty to inform both of you that the above conflict is unwelcome on Europeforum. Now that that has been said, I'm hoping we can move on.
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Post by whollygoats on Apr 7, 2020 3:59:02 GMT
I have no problem with tangent's actions here. He was justified.
I also have no problem with what I have posted here. tangent and I just have a disagreement over the content.
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Post by spaceflower on Apr 7, 2020 13:24:00 GMT
Is the truth racist?
I don't mind any other Europeans as long as the can support themselves. There are east European theft leagues coming to Sweden and committing burglaries. This is a well known fact in Sweden. A down side of free movement within EU.
I've read a lot about the Romanian gypsies so I know that they are not highly educated, the children don't go to school etc. And it is not good for the children that their parents go to Sweden and leave their children for long times. So, yes, the best thing is for them to stay in Romania. The best way to help them is by giving money to organisations who help them in Romania.
We have Swedish and Finnish gypsies in Sweden already. They have suffered from discrimination, their children did not have the right to go to school, they were not allowed to stay at the same place for more than a month, they lived in caravans. Long time ago people got money for killing them. So I know a lot about discrimination against gypsies. But nowadays they have the same rights as other Swedish citizens, they live in apartments, their children go to school. But there are still problems, they leave school early etc.
The task of integrating people of a totally different culture is really hard. We have finally realized this in Sweden. Good will is not enough. The failures have lead to a lot of shootings, knifings and explosions in Sweden. I know the problems we have, you don't. So we really cannot solve the problems of gypsies in Romania as well.
I noticed with relief in London that there were no beggars sitting outside the shops. It is a thing that can make avoid going into the shop.
Should not this thread be in International Politics?
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Post by tangent on Apr 7, 2020 13:25:14 GMT
Nevertheless, WG, I must ask you not to make personal attacks on forum members in future.
I'm closing this thread now because I don't want to encourage further discussion on this particular event.
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