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Post by juju on Aug 1, 2020 8:57:31 GMT
Biden. Hmmm.
ANYONE is better than Trump, sure. But Biden though? Surely the Dems could have come up with someone better? It’s an open goal, after all. But despite his current lead I would have thought Biden would be the most likely candidate to put people off voting?
He’s associated with a previous administration. He’s pretty old - he’ll be into his eighties soon (sorry if that sounds ageist but the reality is that no one has that kind of energy at that age). I’ve also seen videos which suggest he’s a bit, well...creepy?
Surely he’d be too easy for the opposition to take apart? The risk is that too many people won’t bring themselves to vote at all if he’s the other guy. Or am I worrying unnecessarily?
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Post by tangent on Aug 1, 2020 9:23:40 GMT
ANYONE is better than Trump, sure. But Biden though?... Or am I worrying unnecessarily? No, you are right to be worried. Trump sending in the federal troops to Portland has already lifted his approval rating by 2%. He won't be able to fix Covid-19 or the economy but he is quite capable of drumming up some other emergency. There are so many candidates who would be better than Biden but somehow primary voters seemed to like him. Let's see who his running mate will be. It's ironic that many Republicans wondered why the GOP couldn't come up with a better candidate than Trump in 2016.
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Post by juju on Aug 1, 2020 11:03:51 GMT
I’m guessing that given his age, his choice of running mate could be crucial.
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Post by JoeP on Aug 1, 2020 11:04:14 GMT
All your other points are valid concerns, but I don't see the issue with being associated with a previous administration. He served under Barack Obama who was reasonably popular among people not rabidly opposed to the Democratic party - and he took the lead from Obama, and worked well with him appearing to get on well and not undermine or challenge him - this is pretty significant for lots of black voters, because it is very much not the norm.
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Post by JoeP on Aug 1, 2020 11:04:57 GMT
I’m guessing that given his age, his choice of running mate could be crucial. I've heard that he's said he'll only run for one term, which makes this even more significant.
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Post by Mari on Aug 1, 2020 11:54:02 GMT
I’m guessing that given his age, his choice of running mate could be crucial. I've heard that he's said he'll only run for one term, which makes this even more significant. That's what all dictators say when they start out
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Post by juju on Aug 1, 2020 12:54:11 GMT
All your other points are valid concerns, but I don't see the issue with being associated with a previous administration. He served under Barack Obama who was reasonably popular among people not rabidly opposed to the Democratic party - and he took the lead from Obama, and worked well with him appearing to get on well and not undermine or challenge him - this is pretty significant for lots of black voters, because it is very much not the norm. While all that is true, Trump did get voted in because people wanted a break from the same old same old. I would have thought that a newer, 'fresher' alternative to Trump would have been a shoo-in at the moment, rather than a rehash of the previous administration. I am reminded of Gordon Brown who decided it was his 'turn' to be Prime Minister. That didn't work so well for Labour.
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Post by Moose on Aug 1, 2020 22:29:40 GMT
My feeling at the moment is ... just get Trump out and then let's work on fixing things. If it has to be Biden, it has to be.
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Post by juju on Aug 1, 2020 23:48:01 GMT
My feeling at the moment is ... just get Trump out and then let's work on fixing things. If it has to be Biden, it has to be. Well yeah, but I worry that Biden might be another Hilary - there might be enough people who don’t like Trump but don’t like him either, so not vote. I would hope they’d be able to hold their nose and do it, but he needs a convincing majority.
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Post by Moose on Aug 2, 2020 0:42:44 GMT
Any sort of majority will do
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Post by JoeP on Aug 2, 2020 11:36:27 GMT
My feeling at the moment is ... just get Trump out and then let's work on fixing things. If it has to be Biden, it has to be. Well yeah, but I worry that Biden might be another Hilary - there might be enough people who don’t like Trump but don’t like him either, so not vote. I would hope they’d be able to hold their nose and do it, but he needs a convincing majority. And that's the problem with several of the other candidates. They might seem better to us but many of the electorate would be turned off by say Bernie Sanders because he's an extremely dangerous socialist ... in their minds.
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Post by Moose on Aug 2, 2020 15:26:30 GMT
Yeah There's also the trouble of the Bernie or Bust people ... many people on my feed say they will write Bernie in and it just seems like a vote for Trump to me.
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Post by juju on Aug 2, 2020 21:06:21 GMT
Any sort of majority will do I read at least one news op ed which suggested that Biden needs to win with a sizeable majority, because any close call and Trump simply won’t accept it - he’s already primed his voters to mistrust the voting system by asking for a postponement. He’d just declare voter fraud and call for a rerun, or cause trouble some other way.
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Post by tangent on Aug 2, 2020 22:22:41 GMT
I read at least one news op ed which suggested that Biden needs to win with a sizeable majority, because any close call and Trump simply won’t accept it - he’s already primed his voters to mistrust the voting system by asking for a postponement. He’d just declare voter fraud and call for a rerun, or cause trouble some other way. In answer to that, I suggest you read the New Yorker What Could Happen If Donald Trump Rejects Electoral Defeat
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Post by JoeP on Aug 2, 2020 22:34:00 GMT
Any sort of majority will do I read at least one news op ed which suggested that Biden needs to win with a sizeable majority, because any close call and Trump simply won’t accept it - he’s already primed his voters to mistrust the voting system by asking for a postponement. He’d just declare voter fraud and call for a rerun, or cause trouble some other way. Pretty sure he'll do that even if Biden gets a huge majority. The man is insane.
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Post by juju on Aug 3, 2020 10:07:37 GMT
Guessing Kelly hasn’t noticed this thread yet? 😁 Kelly, if you see this - what’s your view of Biden and his chances?
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Post by whollygoats on Aug 7, 2020 2:38:08 GMT
Biden and his chances are very good. I think his choice of a running mate will be important, but I don't think it will hobble the campaign. My favorite is Warren, but she is white and could be a better influence in the Senate, or the cabinet, rather than as VP.
I agree with JoeP that the bad precedent will make a scene no matter what. Just wait until the indictments start flying after Biden's inauguration. Additionally, if he loses, there are going to be a LOT of really stupid people with guns who will be very unhappy. A LOT. With him at the helm for nearly two months, those months may be very harrowing.
Look at Donny Dumbshit now. He's trying to paint Biden with the 'unhinged leftist' brush. Guilt by association with Bernie. It's like he thinks he is running against Bernie. Claiming that practicing Catholic Joe Biden will ban the Bible and suppress religion is....slander, actually.
I don't really care for Joe Biden. He is not my choice. He is so old school that he's considered the bought man of the credit card industry. He's old school Democrat, all right. He's so old school, he flirted with school segregation during the busing controversy years. Remember, Biden was added to the Democratic ticket with Obama as A BALANCE. Given all that, even if he is a geriatric gomer, he's head and shoulders above the current shithead in office. I'm voting for BYEDON.
The fuckwit got a 2% point bump for sending jackbooted shitheads in to Portland? Are you fucking serious? He made a fool of himself and his administration and Republicans are appalled and are bailing right and left. The actions perpetrated by his gestapo has made it clear that this administration has a really shitty fascist agenda. The Wall of Moms, Dads with Leaf Blowers, Raging Grannies, and nekkid yoga goddesses pissed in Dumbshit Donny's cornflakes big time. It seems Black Lives Matter.
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Post by JoeP on Aug 7, 2020 17:13:33 GMT
Guilt by association with Bernie. It's like he thinks he is running against Bernie. On a positive note, it displays a bit more lucidity than all the times when Honest Don thinks he's still running against Obama.
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Post by whollygoats on Aug 7, 2020 17:45:01 GMT
Guilt by association with Bernie. It's like he thinks he is running against Bernie. On a positive note, it displays a bit more lucidity than all the times when Honest Don thinks he's still running against Obama. Don is who I'm talking about, not Joe. Dumbshit Donny just accused Biden of being 'against God' and that Biden will, if elected, ban religion is America. Now, as much as I really like that idea, even I don't think it is anywhere near reality. Joe Biden is pretty well known as a practicing Roman Catholic...whereas, we're all still wondering what flavor of 'Christianity' the bad precedent thinks he should be displaying for the public. My bet is some version of the Prosperity Gospel, but the messaging is so garbled that, even now, I'm still unsure.
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Post by Mari on Aug 7, 2020 18:35:19 GMT
...whereas, we're all still wondering what flavor of 'Christianity' the bad precedent thinks he should be displaying for the public. My bet is some version of the Prosperity Gospel, but the messaging is so garbled that, even now, I'm still unsure. Im pretty sure he doesn't know himself and doesn't care. He just says what he thinks people want him to say in that situation and which suits him at that time. I'm very sure he's forgotten what he said exactly 5 minutes later. *rolls eyes*
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Post by whollygoats on Aug 11, 2020 23:03:43 GMT
Okay...So, here is my take on the selection of Kamala Harris as Joe Biden's running mate.
I'm disappointed.
Once again, I will go to the polls and, on the issue of the selection of the president of the United States, I will have to hold my nose to vote.
Biden was bad enough, but to absolutely piss on the progressive wing of the party is disgusting. Biden/Harris is a badly unbalanced ticket. Of course, I know why the DNC did it. They want to return the old swamp monsters to the holding pen in DC. Harris is a good subject for that. A party hack. Sure, she's black and she's smart, but so is Stacey Abrams and she's not saddled with a dubious public record of prosecutorial misconduct. Like I said, a hack.
It's a good thing they are running against Trump, because otherwise I, and a whole lot of other people, would be looking for some other way to cast our votes. Of course, I'm sure that the DNC knew that, and conveyed that to Biden, before the selection was made. No big surprise there. Ergo, the progressives have, once again, been left out in the cold. I hope that Bernie and Leahy turn out to be keystone hinge votes in the Senate.
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Post by juju on Aug 12, 2020 8:33:44 GMT
I don’t know anything about her other than being black and female. I must admit to being pleased when I saw her because I thought it would be a great counterbalance to yet another old white man, and given Biden’s age his running mate would be important.
But you’re not the only one who’s expressed disappointment WG, so I’m guessing she’s not popular? Surely the Dems need to be fielding the very best at this point?
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Post by tangent on Aug 12, 2020 8:49:46 GMT
Current (British) betting odds give Biden only a 57% chance of winning but that says more about the people placing their bets than the actual probability. Betting odds are adjusted to ensure the betting companies never lose money so that means for every £57 of bets placed on Biden, there is £43 placed on Trump to win. I find that dispiriting whichever way you look at it.
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Post by whollygoats on Aug 12, 2020 13:05:09 GMT
I don’t know anything about her other than being black and female. I must admit to being pleased when I saw her because I thought it would be a great counterbalance to yet another old white man, and given Biden’s age his running mate would be important. The first rule of American politics: Don't view things by 'how they look', because 'how they look' is usually nowhere near how they are. Oh, in some quarters of the Democratic Party, she's very popular. She is just NOT a progressive. She is part and parcel of the Old Democrats, the foot soldiers of the DNC and already compromised by their connections to monied donors which makes them bulwarks in the defence of Citizens United. In short, she's bought and wants to remain that way. She will also be an impediment to universal health care. Like I said, Biden picking Harris was his way to piss all over the progressive Democrats. I guess the DNC really doesn't give a shit about their party, because this will be just another slam of the splitting maul to bring down the 'Big Tent'.
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Post by whollygoats on Aug 12, 2020 13:32:41 GMT
Well....The Lincoln Project has put out their Kamala Harris video, and they seem to be quite happy with her. This is no real surprise. So, this is who Biden wanted in his column, the disaffected Republicans. He couldn't get away with selecting a Republican as his running mate (which he actually suggested), so he got the next best thing which was both female and black: Kamala Harris.
Don't forget, the Clintons sold America out. Democrats are NOT to be trusted with power any more than Republicans.
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Post by juju on Aug 12, 2020 14:04:01 GMT
It’s sad but it’s symptomatic of a rightward shift in politics in an increasing number of countries. What I can never, ever understand is the appeal to the working classes, who seem hell bent on voting against their own best interests.
Sigh...
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Post by tangent on Aug 12, 2020 14:12:58 GMT
The Democrats appear to be playing safe. In contrast, five years ago, the British Labour Party went for hard left policies and voted for the worst leader of the Labour Party in 50 years, Jeremy Corbyn. You may not like Kamala Harris but she's worth it if she has the best chance of winning the vote.
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Post by whollygoats on Aug 12, 2020 14:24:42 GMT
The Democrats appear to be playing safe. In contrast, five years ago, the British Labour Party went for hard left policies and voted for the worst leader of the Labour Party in 50 years, Jeremy Corbyn. You may not like Kamala Harris but she's worth it if she has the best chance of winning the vote. IF. If this selection alienates enough of the progressive wing of the Democrats and they stay home in droves, then this decision may return Trump to office. Steve, you should stop pontificating on a topic which you are exceedingly ignorant. I'm tired of your cryptofascism. Corbyn was, and is, head and shoulders above each and every Tory which has held the PM office during or since his tenure as Labour leader. So, I think your analysis is shite.
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Post by whollygoats on Aug 12, 2020 14:29:18 GMT
It’s sad but it’s symptomatic of a rightward shift in politics in an increasing number of countries. What I can never, ever understand is the appeal to the working classes, who seem hell bent on voting against their own best interests. Sigh... The possibility that they may win the lottery and then be fabulously wealthy and live like a king ("You, too, could be fabulously wealthy, just like me, unless you let our government take it all away from you"). They think any initiative which might crib about this fantasy wealth they might come in to should be throttled in its infancy. The rich have repeatedly retold this story and it just keeps getting swallowed whole. Remember, the Indian casinos are doing a landoffice business fleecing gamblers. Oh....And this is combined with racism and bigotry, so that even while the cryptofascists are crushed under the boots of their masters, they can still look down on those different than themselves. That makes them feel all warm and squiggly inside. It's really a pretty sick and twisted outlook. And, watching tangent's facile gyrations tells me that you have a very similar problem there in the UK. Morons.
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Post by whollygoats on Aug 12, 2020 14:41:17 GMT
All we need do now is hand Kamala the bucket of warm piss.
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