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Post by juju on Nov 14, 2020 8:18:39 GMT
I was watching a Trump supporter bring interviewed and she looked completely bewildered as she said it was ‘impossible’ that Biden could have won. But I do understand why Trump supporters must be feeling utterly confused by now - obviously most are still deep in denial and clinging onto his narrative about the election being rigged, but it’s not surprising. As far as most of them are concerned, they, their family, their neighbourhood, their friends on social media, literally everyone they can see, all voted for their guy. How could he lose? It’s impossible! It must have been a huge scam.
I’m left leaning. So are all my friends (although not all my extended family, but we don’t talk politics). Here in Britain we don’t advertise our personal politics as much, even at election time (fewer lawn signs etc) but social media has made many of us feel bolder about talking politics. During Brexit and the last election I was surrounded by like minded people. I was well and truly in a social media bubble, with Facebook feeding me all that it thought I wanted to see. So - although I’m not naive - the results still feel shocking. How could there be so many Tory / Brexit voters? It was upsetting and unsettling.
Thanks to social media, we’re now utterly divided and in our echo chambers. We are politically and ideologically tribal and the rhetoric is increasingly vicious. Is there any way back?
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Post by tangent on Nov 14, 2020 9:05:21 GMT
I too am left-leaning but that has not always been the case. The Internet has given me the opportunity to examine my political views and now I find many right-wing views abhorrent. But I have noticed how polarised Facebook is becoming and find it very sad. I have two politically outspoken right-wing friends on Facebook and I regard them as valuable as my left-wing friends. I strive to understand their points of view, which at times is nonsensical but above all it shows me how their minds work and what their values are.
Everything we might say about Trump is either false or irrelevant and I find it quite easy to see how 'good' people voted for him. Take for example, drinking bleach. The whole world saw what a farce that was but he was brain-storming aloud, he didn't mention the word 'bleach' - he actually said disinfectant - and he was thinking of the disinfectant restaurant workers spray on tables. The difference between their modes of thought and ours are stark and irreconcilable and it has shown me that any discussions must be made with their frame of reference in mind to have any impact. But if we are polarised, we can never discover their frame of reference and any discussion is pointless.
A key reason for the polarisation is the media. I have friends in Marple who read the Telegraph and only the Telegraph. Likewise, other friends read the Mail and only the Mail. Their points of view on Brexit, industry and lockdown are considerably influenced by the right-wing views in those newspapers. Likewise, my right-wing friends in America only read right-wing and far-right web pages. It's no wonder we are polarised because we are blinkered by the media of our choice.
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Post by juju on Nov 14, 2020 10:51:29 GMT
Yeah, Adrian’s dad reads the Telegraph and you can hear it in all his views, even to the point of saying that everything should go back to normal (because of the economy) as the virus is only dangerous to the elderly. He’s 84 😮
The tribal bubbles are dangerous though. Characterising your political opposites is getting more extreme, and as we are witnessing, is undermining democracy. Trump voters *literally* can’t believe so many people voted for Biden when Biden is clearly (so they’ve been told) a communist, senile, and worse. Perhaps they never will believe it. What does that mean for faith in the process?
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Post by Moose on Nov 14, 2020 21:29:22 GMT
I used to have more right wing friends but to be honest during Brexit and the build up to the US election I just could not deal with them anymore and shed a lot of them. I realise that that put me into an echo chamber and makes me somewhat narrow minded but I can't put up with the drivel these people spout.
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Post by whollygoats on Nov 16, 2020 2:11:06 GMT
Why should I endeavor to accept those who have engaged in morally reprehensible behavior and remain unapologetic about it? Please, I'd like to hear why I should forgive those who have separated families, caged children, and encouraged thugs to terrorize and kill? You wish me to engage with monsters? Such demands begin to sound like the gaslighting of abusive partners. Denial that I have seen what I have seen with my own eyes. Suppression of witnesses and whistleblowers. Before we can heal the division, we must address the reason it exists in the first place. I'm Not Ready to Make Nice.
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Post by juju on Nov 16, 2020 13:07:18 GMT
I get that, but that’s not what I’m saying.
My point is that these people are living insulated lives and being fed insulated news (and lies) in which their political opposites are characterised as evil and a threat to all they hold dear. They probably truly believe that Biden is a communist and America is about to be destroyed, when the sad fact is that probably not enough *will* change.
What happens now?
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Post by whollygoats on Nov 16, 2020 14:46:06 GMT
We witness events unfold. I dunno about you, but I've actually done the full extent I feel I'm capable; I voted. I'm still outraged, and fairly disheartened.
And, if I don't lead an insulated, and isolated, life, I don't know who does. Yes, I live in a bubble, but that's because I can't breathe outside that bubble.
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Post by tangent on Nov 16, 2020 16:21:07 GMT
My point is that these people are living insulated lives and being fed insulated news (and lies) in which their political opposites are characterised as evil and a threat to all they hold dear. They probably truly believe that Biden is a communist and America is about to be destroyed, when the sad fact is that probably not enough *will* change. There are also couples who support both parties. I have a friend who is Republican and his wife is a Democrat - I have met them both two or three times - and yet they get along perfectly well together (as far as I know). We don't mention politics but Mike once told me he was very surprised (and puzzled) that policemen don't carry guns.
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Post by Moose on Nov 16, 2020 21:03:49 GMT
Apparently Katie Hopkins's husband is leftwing. I don't get that. She's not just right wing, she's an absolute hate monger.
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Post by whollygoats on Nov 16, 2020 22:02:50 GMT
Alice laughed: "There's no use trying," she said; "one can't believe impossible things."
"I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
And so it goes...
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