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Post by whollygoats on Sept 12, 2013 2:43:25 GMT
So, I'm reading a discussion of outbreaks of measles being traced to megachurch congregations in the US where the pastor has been preaching against vaccination.
Then, in the midst of this, this quote pops up:
Of course, my immediate question was...."Wait....the Nether regions have a 'Bible Belt'?" This is news to me.
Tell me more.
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Post by jayme on Sept 12, 2013 6:27:04 GMT
I blame McCarthy.
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Post by raspberrybullets on Sept 12, 2013 8:20:59 GMT
We were in the Catholic south last weekend but they seem to be in the more tolerant batch of religiosos.
In any case, the protestants are up here in the north part.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2013 9:52:37 GMT
So that's the Bible Belt?
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Post by tangent on Sept 13, 2013 10:14:30 GMT
The Bible belt reminds me of the Mormon underwear.
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Post by raspberrybullets on Sept 13, 2013 10:38:08 GMT
There's no belt on the mormon underwear I don't think. But they have symbols over the nipples.
DG says it's sort of around the area of Hardeweijk, Putten and such. I think Mari is from that side. It's not really a belt perhaps, more like a clump?
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Post by whollygoats on Sept 13, 2013 13:37:44 GMT
A poster on another list provided this: It's a map of the SGP voters; the SGP being a political party of fundamentalist-type Protestants. It matches quite well with the map where the recent measles outbreaks have been plotted. So the 'belt' runs from NE to SW, roughly through the centre of the country. Somebody mentioned that this is an area of low hills. Is that right? Are these people 'hillbillies'? Or, would they be "hillwillams"?
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Post by raspberrybullets on Sept 13, 2013 13:43:12 GMT
Hills? I don't think there are hills except in the south east area of Limburg. Maybe there are a few bumps here and there. I'm glad to see Almere is in the 0-1 range bracket.
Probably on the weekend DG can shed some more light, tonight we're going out so no online activities. I think Mari also is only going to be online on the weekend as she was busy moving.
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Post by whollygoats on Sept 13, 2013 14:18:07 GMT
Yeah...I know that the concept of geographical features like 'hills' and 'mountains' can vary considerably. For example, here in the US, there is a long range of mountains which runs through most of the original colonies, the Appalachians. I hadn't seen them until I was an adult and I thought that they were nice hills, but I come from an area where the mountains are relatively new and larger and...more majestic (meaning snow-covered most of the year). Then, when I went through Asia, I crossed over the Tian Shan, which make the mountains near me look like molehills. The area we went through had seven peaks over 7,000 meters in elevation (here, the local biggest being barely over 3,000 meters) and the elevation of the mountain pass we crossed through is greater than the top of the biggest mountain in the Cascades.
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Post by jayme on Sept 13, 2013 17:06:16 GMT
This is Mount Sunflower, the highest mountain in Kansas:
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Post by charliebrown on Sept 13, 2013 17:11:47 GMT
The Bible belt reminds me of the Mormon underwear.
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Post by Mari on Sept 13, 2013 19:02:51 GMT
Yes, we have a Bible Belt. Harderwijk, where I'm from, is on the fringe of it. Basically these are strict protestants (Old Reformed). They are often quite easy to recognise: women wear skirts over the knee, on Sunday they wear a hat as well, they often don't get their cut, so they have long braids. In the more extreme parts, they wear a lot of black. For some reason most clothing restrictions don't count for guys, though women are considered equal in most ways: they can hold jobs and the like. Their main point in not vaccinating their children is that they consider it interference by man in God's plan.
One big thing to know is that these people are often not extremists or part of a sect trying to convert as many people as they can. No Fred Phelps in any case. They are very traditional and literal in their take of the Bible though. For example, I tried to visit a website for wallpaper on a Sunday and the website was closed on Sundays and instead it had the Bible text on resting on Sunday. Their shops often close during lunch which used to be tradition here and their service is usually really good.
As of last week, there are female government workers in the SGP by the way. Before they were allowed to do the work, but not to represent the SGP members.
Does that answer some questions, WG?
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Post by whollygoats on Sept 13, 2013 20:54:15 GMT
Yeah...Thanks, Mari.
"The Veluwe" was the 'hilly country' referenced. 'Hilly' probably means that it is above high tide.
And, Jayme? I'm guessing that Mt. Sunflower is very near the Kansas-Colorado border. Yes? I've always considered Kansas to be like this big billiard table, tilted slightly down to the eastwards, with hundreds of river-gouged cooleys scarring the largely flat surface. All of it declining into Misery. So, for me, the highest point would have to be somewhere near the western border.
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Post by Moose on Sept 13, 2013 21:31:58 GMT
The thing is that not all anti vaccine people are religious nuts. My mum is dead against vaccination which has caused some problems with my sister. I don't bother to debate it with her for the same reason that I don't bother to debate her theories that 9/11 was an inside job or Princess Diana is still alive.
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Post by Miisa on Sept 13, 2013 21:39:35 GMT
Is she old enough to have seen polio do it's thing, or smallpox? Have her kids had whooping cough?
It is all too easy these days for people to be anti-vax, as the dangerous diseases are no longer commonly experienced, seen or felt, so it feels like they were/are not that serious. But the older generations more easily tend to remember the bad old days.
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Post by Kye on Sept 13, 2013 21:45:55 GMT
I had polio as a child and I could easily have been paralyzed by it. You better believe I had my kids inoculated!
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Post by Miisa on Sept 13, 2013 21:49:00 GMT
I had pertussis/whooping cough as a child, and while I don't remember it, my mother has several times said it was some of the worst days of her life.
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Post by tangent on Sept 13, 2013 22:58:45 GMT
I didn't have whooping cough but I learnt how to imitate it because it scared the teachers and was fun. I had mumps, though, and it affected my audio response to the lower frequencies.
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Post by whollygoats on Sept 14, 2013 1:51:36 GMT
Well, most of my questions. You raised this, but you're not required to answer my repost... Their main point in not vaccinating their children is that they consider it interference by man in God's plan. Why is it that vaccinations are not also part of God's plan? It occurred on God's watch and one of God's creatures was responsible for figuring out that using other aspects of God's creation to minimize suffering, disability, and death amongst God's own people...well, I'd think vaccinations were wonders of God's plan. But then, as you know, I don't believe in the God thing...I just think measles vaccination is easy, effective, well-tested, and sensible.
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Post by jayme on Sept 14, 2013 3:17:05 GMT
And, Jayme? I'm guessing that Mt. Sunflower is very near the Kansas-Colorado border. Yes? I've always considered Kansas to be like this big billiard table, tilted slightly down to the eastwards, with hundreds of river-gouged cooleys scarring the largely flat surface. All of it declining into Misery. So, for me, the highest point would have to be somewhere near the western border. Indeed. Thou art wise as thou art beautiful. On the map, Mt Sunflower appears to be almost 3000 feet from Colorado.
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Post by Alvamiga on Sept 14, 2013 7:06:21 GMT
It can be shown that one person had complications or problems from a vaccine, but the hundreds it has protected are invisible and all people can see is the downside, unless they think about it more. It is also no consolation to the people who are affected.
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Post by Miisa on Sept 14, 2013 9:12:39 GMT
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Post by Alvamiga on Sept 14, 2013 9:34:46 GMT
Nah! That's just a rumour!
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Post by JoeP on Sept 14, 2013 14:43:28 GMT
the website was closed on Sundays That is mind boggling. I can actually feel my mind boggling. My mind is boggling, Dave, I can feel it. It's the equivalent of blacking out shop windows on a Sunday, instead of just not opening the doors.
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Post by JoeP on Sept 14, 2013 14:48:02 GMT
I didn't have whooping cough but I learnt how to imitate it because it scared the teachers and was fun. Your naughty side coming out?
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Post by tangent on Sept 14, 2013 15:14:57 GMT
I was a typical 6-year old boy
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Post by JoeP on Sept 14, 2013 16:51:02 GMT
For some reason I imagined you doing this in your mid teens ... with a full beard ...
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Post by Alvamiga on Sept 14, 2013 17:34:48 GMT
I think he has had the beard since birth!
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Post by Alvamiga on Sept 14, 2013 17:37:18 GMT
the website was closed on Sundays That is mind boggling. I can actually feel my mind boggling. My mind is boggling, Dave, I can feel it. It's the equivalent of blacking out shop windows on a Sunday, instead of just not opening the doors. I enjoyed a website I found yesterday... when you click on "order online" it says "to order online, please phone 07--- ------" (the number is irrelevant).
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Post by tangent on Sept 14, 2013 17:41:08 GMT
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