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Post by Moose on Mar 13, 2018 22:52:54 GMT
The last few days have been pretty worrying. A Russian double agent who was allowed to return to the UK some time ago in an exchange for their spies has been poisoned with a nerve agent - I believe he is still alive, however. Russia is denying involvement, the government is trying to force them to admit involvement. Right now it's still just sabre rattling but it might escalate into something more.
Trump has said that the US will stand with the UK. Hmm. We'll see.
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Post by tangent on Mar 14, 2018 0:40:16 GMT
Will this affect the Russian presidential election on 18 March? Has Putin timed the attack deliberately so he can display a show of force to the electorate (Britain expels diplomats, Putin retaliates)?
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Post by JoeP on Mar 14, 2018 10:22:05 GMT
Tangent is probably right. As usual. Although there wasn't a real risk of him not getting reelected.
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Post by Moose on Mar 14, 2018 20:49:14 GMT
Is there any viable alternative to him? Is anyone running against him?
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Post by JoeP on Mar 14, 2018 21:03:10 GMT
I think the serious opposition candidate is currently in jail for trumped-up charges.
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Post by tangent on Mar 15, 2018 2:08:13 GMT
Trumped-up charges? You mean Donald Trump has been caught meddling in the election campaign? Tangent is probably right. Of course
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Post by whollygoats on Mar 15, 2018 17:32:51 GMT
Putin down, Trump up.
Has anybody checked as to whether the Rooskies buggered your Brexit vote?
That would be just the ticket to sow dissent amongst their adversaries.
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Post by Mari on Mar 15, 2018 18:16:58 GMT
I think the serious opposition candidate is currently in jail for trumped-up charges. Any possible opposition cadidate ends up in jail or mysteriously dead. It happened several times over the years. And yet every time new leaders rise that will organize marches and protests. I think it's very brave of them. The only "options" remainng are harmless and usually subordinates of Putin.
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Post by JoeP on Mar 15, 2018 18:17:29 GMT
Putin down the Ritz [/singing]
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Post by JoeP on Mar 15, 2018 18:18:15 GMT
Yes, there is a fair amount of speculation that the Russians have been supporting anti-EU movements and elections across Europe.
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Post by Moose on Mar 26, 2018 18:55:42 GMT
I see that Trump has expelled his Russian diplomats in solidarity with us. Ugh. Not sure I want to be grateful to Trump for anything.
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Post by tangent on Mar 26, 2018 19:46:30 GMT
Isn't that the first good thing he's done for us?
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Post by Moose on Mar 26, 2018 22:43:34 GMT
I doubt he did it for us.
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Post by Mari on Mar 27, 2018 17:11:22 GMT
I think many countries were waiting for an excuse. And if it turns out that the UK was wrong and Russia had nothing to do with it, we can blame our actions on the Brits. Win win.
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Post by tangent on Mar 27, 2018 17:50:31 GMT
The evidence for Russian involvement is overwhelming, although we don't know if it's Putin himself who sanctioned the attack or a rogue mafia group through lack of control of the stocks. Either way, Russia is responsible.
I note that most countries have only expelled one diplomat, which suggests token support only.
Ukraine has expelled 13 diplomats so they are obviously using it as an excuse to get even. Nevertheless, all support is very welcome.
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Post by Moose on Mar 27, 2018 22:16:44 GMT
I can't see how Russia would NOT have been involved in it.
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Post by raspberrybullets on Mar 27, 2018 22:20:51 GMT
We've expelled two diplomats from Aussie.
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Post by tangent on Mar 27, 2018 22:45:49 GMT
Good on yer
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Post by Mari on Mar 28, 2018 17:16:36 GMT
I never said Russia didn't do it. Elections are coming up, so it's a good time to do this sort of stuff. My point was that for most countries it doesn't matter.
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Post by Mari on Apr 11, 2018 16:23:42 GMT
By the way, is there any proof that it was the Russians yet? The more I read, the more I start to doubt it.
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Post by tangent on Apr 11, 2018 19:48:58 GMT
Russia is putting out a lot of false or misleading information with the intention of making you doubt that they are responsible.
There is firm scientific evidence that the nerve agent was one of the Novichok group that Russia developed between 1971 and 1993 and no other country knows how to produce it (or no other country is known to have produced it). But there is further evidence, which is secret and probably comes from the intelligence services, and that evidence is very definite that Russia is responsible. Furthermore, we are fairly sure that that secret evidence has been shared with the leaders of many other European countries with the result that they have taken similar action in expelling diplomats. A senior politician tells us that they would not have taken such action without being shown specific evidence.
Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson clumsily muddied the water on German TV when he said that the Chief Executive of Porton Down (the scientific laboratory that analysed the nerve agent) was sure that the Novichok agent was made in Russia. That was incorrect. The Porton Down Chief Executive later clarified that he was 100% sure it was Novichok but that it wasn't his job to identify the source. A presenter on German TV then announced that there was some doubt as to the source but the very next day, Angela Merkel replied that there was categorically no doubt as to the source. She must have seen the secret evidence to be willing to make such a strong statement. Unfortunately, Boris is prone to scoring own goals.
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Post by Moose on Apr 11, 2018 20:21:11 GMT
Trump's tweets today have been excruciating. And the Russians made him look like a child having a tantrum in their reply.
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Post by whollygoats on Apr 11, 2018 22:07:37 GMT
Anybody who follows Spanky making tweets is doing nothing but enabling a spoiled child having a tantrum.
I hope Mad Dog Mattis finally steps up and kicks Spanky right in the fork. And then knees him in the nose on the way to the floor.
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Post by Mari on Apr 12, 2018 17:55:45 GMT
Russia is putting out a lot of false or misleading information with the intention of making you doubt that they are responsible. There is firm scientific evidence that the nerve agent was one of the Novichok group that Russia developed between 1971 and 1993 and no other country knows how to produce it (or no other country is known to have produced it). But there is further evidence, which is secret and probably comes from the intelligence services, and that evidence is very definite that Russia is responsible. Furthermore, we are fairly sure that that secret evidence has been shared with the leaders of many other European countries with the result that they have taken similar action in expelling diplomats. A senior politician tells us that they would not have taken such action without being shown specific evidence. Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson clumsily muddied the water on German TV when he said that the Chief Executive of Porton Down (the scientific laboratory that analysed the nerve agent) was sure that the Novichok agent was made in Russia. That was incorrect. The Porton Down Chief Executive later clarified that he was 100% sure it was Novichok but that it wasn't his job to identify the source. A presenter on German TV then announced that there was some doubt as to the source but the very next day, Angela Merkel replied that there was categorically no doubt as to the source. She must have seen the secret evidence to be willing to make such a strong statement. Unfortunately, Boris is prone to scoring own goals. Well, my doubt mostly lies in the method and timing. I don't doubt that it's Novichok or that it originates in Russia.
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Post by tangent on Apr 12, 2018 18:09:08 GMT
Well, my doubt mostly lies in the method and timing. Timing?
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Post by Mari on Apr 13, 2018 16:37:28 GMT
Yes, the man has lived in the UK for quite some years now. Why now?
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Post by tangent on Apr 13, 2018 22:58:15 GMT
You might ask that question of Litvinenko who fled to the UK in 2000 and was poisoned in November 2006.
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Post by Mari on Apr 14, 2018 7:12:45 GMT
And yet again: why poison someone? It's an uncertain death as the current case shows. It's much easierr to bribe some loser to stick a knife between the ribs and less likely to be traced back. Again, I'm not saying Russia didn't do it, but there are many illogicalities.
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Post by tangent on Apr 14, 2018 16:34:30 GMT
It has to be traceable to the Russian state to act as a deterrent.
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Post by Moose on Apr 14, 2018 18:46:20 GMT
I think yeah, it's showboating.
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