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Post by spaceflower on Aug 5, 2020 8:25:25 GMT
www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53581473This has lead to two debates. The smaller one: What is a 12-year girl doing out at 3 o'clock in the morning? She took the dog with her so that the dog would not wake her father up when she returned. But I don't think she suddenly was hungry for a hamburger in the night. I think she went to see one. Maybe a friend, or maybe she hooked up with the gangsters (18 and 21 years old) who were the targets for the shootings. Some call it "victim blaming" but I don't agree. A 12 year has no sense but is there no way to keep them safe? Of course, the same thing could have happened in day light. There are so many shootings going on now, sometimes in parks where children are playing. People in Norsborg know who the killers are. But nobody says anything. The other debate is predictable: "We have received too many refugees and are now paying the price." "No good deed goes unpunished. Of course, among the refugees there may be professional criminals and terrorists. But the gang members are usually the sons of the refugees. We will see the results of the refugee wave from 2015 in 2030. The police have said that the gang leaders are almost always of immigrant origin. Just look at their names: www.expressen.se/nyheter/brottscentralen/qs/de-styr/Is there a way to stop these gangsters who don't care if innocent are shot? I fear the only result is that the populist Sweden Democrats will get more votes. Disclaimer: Most immigrants are honest hard-working people. But the gangsters rule in some suburbs. 100 gangsters can make life hell for 5000 non-gangsters. Maybe my daughter is safer abroad than in Sweden. There has been such a change in the last 30 years.
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Post by tangent on Aug 5, 2020 10:28:20 GMT
People in Norsborg know who the killers are. But nobody says anything. The other debate is predictable: "We have received too many refugees and are now paying the price." "No good deed goes unpunished. Of course, among the refugees there may be professional criminals and terrorists. But the gang members are usually the sons of the refugees. We will see the results of the refugee wave from 2015 in 2030. The police have said that the gang leaders are almost always of immigrant origin. Just look at their names: www.expressen.se/nyheter/brottscentralen/qs/de-styr/I think your source can only be classed as racist. It says, without any doubt, that "the gang leaders are almost always of immigrant origin." But the BBC's source - see below - says that the intelligence chief, Linda H Straaf, says it is "not correct" to suggest new arrivals are typically involved in gang networks. You argue that gang members are usually the sons of refugees but that cannot be the case. Sweden had virtually no immigrants prior to the year 2000 and so unless there was an explosion of reproduction in the early 2000s, the 'sons of immigrants' would still be very young children. As an aside, it is well established that (a) poor people commit more crime than rich people, up to three times as many, (b) immigrants are often poor, and (c) children imitate their parents' behaviour. Authorities in the UK are trying hard to engage with black communities but some intrinsic racism in the police force still exists and that hampers their efforts.
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Post by spaceflower on Aug 7, 2020 0:40:39 GMT
I think your source can only be classed as racist. It says, without any doubt, that "the gang leaders are almost always of immigrant origin." But the BBC's source - see below - says that the intelligence chief, Linda H Straaf, says it is "not correct" to suggest new arrivals are typically involved in gang networks. You argue that gang members are usually the sons of refugees but that cannot be the case. Sweden had virtually no immigrants prior to the year 2000 and so unless there was an explosion of reproduction in the early 2000s, the 'sons of immigrants' would still be very young children.
What are you talking about? We have had immigrants in Sweden since the 60-ies (actually always, Germans in medieval times etc). Former Yugoslavia, Greece, Turkey, Chile, Bosnia, North Africa, Iran, Palestine, Afghanistan, Irak, Somalia etc. Often they live in suburbs. I lived in such a suburb 30 years ago. Both Swedes and immigrants. But now mostly immigrants and they shoot in broad day-light, among children playing.
I wrote that the criminal gangs are not refugees but their sons b/c this is a fact. They don't do well in school and they want to take the easy way to get rich. The daughters are locked in but the sons are out on the streets. They have many children, they live crowded so the boys prefer hanging out. The sons get more power since they speak Swedish and the parent don't. In Sweden it is forbidden to spank your children and the children know it. The parents don't know how to bring the sons up then.
This is not something that happened in 2015, the problems have existed for a long time. Calling the truth "racist" has made people keeping quiet too long. Nowadays it is all open, even in mainstream media. And the Sweden Democrats get more votes.
The criminality is one problem. The "sharia police" in the suburbs forcing women to wear hijab and "decent" clothes (otherwise they are harassed) is another problem. Daughters are sent to the old homeland to marry a cousin. If they protest, they might be the victims of "honour killings".
You must have these problems in UK, France, Germany etc also.
I've lived long enough to see Sweden change completely and not for the better.
In Poland it is written about 12 year old Adriana b/c her mother is from Poland. They see Sweden as a bad example. "Look what happens when you let them refugees in!" In Norway and Denmark also, "we cannot let things get so out of hand here".
The police has still not found the murderers. I fear they never will. They did not find those responsible for a 4-year old girl killed in an explosion. They did not find those responsible for killing an 8-year old boy (on visit from UK) by a grenade.
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Post by Moose on Aug 7, 2020 18:59:36 GMT
If the 12 year old's mother was Polish then SHE was an immigrant surely? Or are you only talking about people of colour when you say 'immigrant'?
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Post by spaceflower on Aug 7, 2020 20:54:29 GMT
Yes, they lived in the suburb. Both her father (from Iran) and her mother were immigrants. As I said, most immigrants are hard-working people. Her father was known as a pillar of society, he had worked with youths and as a community service officer. The criminal immigrant sons are usually (but not always) from MENA. These countries are the least compatible with the Swedish culture. The police say we cannot solve these shootings without witnesses. Therefore they remain unsolved. Nobody talks.
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Post by kingedmund on Aug 17, 2020 22:23:42 GMT
Oh my!
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Post by spaceflower on Aug 26, 2020 21:17:57 GMT
Still nobody arrested for the killing of the girl. One of her friends said that HSS rules in the surburb. HSS = Hear nothing, See nothing, Say nothing. Nobody wants to (or dares to) be a squealer.
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