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Post by juju on Aug 5, 2014 13:17:15 GMT
Any thoughts?
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Post by raspberrybullets on Aug 7, 2014 10:01:15 GMT
Yeah, here is where I find the whole deamon thing getting even more confusing. Now we have the spectres eating presumably the deamons? of adults but not of children who are immune. So again there is this thing with the deamons and puberty and for some reason spectres are attracted to it. And the dust settles on people once they hit puberty more. What does it all mean? Or is it even supposed to mean all that much or it's just a nice way to tie a story together and add a bit of mystery?
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Post by juju on Aug 7, 2014 11:06:42 GMT
I think it's explained a bit more in Book 3, so we can't really talk about it here. But I wonder which came fist, the Spectres in HDM or the Dementors in Harry Potter? Strikes me that they are pretty much the same thing. I might go and look it up.
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Post by juju on Aug 7, 2014 11:18:43 GMT
Interesting... Subtle Knife was published in 1997, The Prisoner of Azkaban in 1999. Although I love the HP series, I'm fully aware that JKR 'borrowed' a huge amount of stuff so maybe this idea was also pinched.
JKR claims that Dementors are an embodiment of depression, which is what Pullman also says, and it's possible they could have come up with the same idea independently of course. But I find the description of Spectres much more terrifying, as I mentioned in the 'Trigger warnings' thread here.
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Post by raspberrybullets on Aug 7, 2014 11:42:42 GMT
I'm not very familiar with the Dementors. I vaguely remember them from the movie - don't they project your fears or something?
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Post by juju on Aug 7, 2014 12:09:20 GMT
No, they're pretty much the same as Spectres - they suck out your 'soul' - your joy, consciousness etc
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Post by raspberrybullets on Aug 7, 2014 12:24:00 GMT
I must be confusing them with something else then. I only saw some of the movies a long time ago.
The Spectres are quite disturbing though. It's interesting the link with OCD and keeping them away. How does that tie in with depression? Does having an OCD keep depression away?
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Post by juju on Aug 7, 2014 12:50:43 GMT
The actions that people perform if they have OCD are all about anxiety. The disorder makes them believe that if they don't perform certain things in certain ways something bad will happen. They will get extremely anxious if they can't do it right.
OCD is a form of anxiety disorder but anxiety is closely linked with depression, and vice versa.
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Post by Moose on Aug 19, 2014 21:23:37 GMT
I actually find Dementors more frightening than I do Spectres though I've not read book Three yet so perhaps they get worse. Interesting correlation though. I always wondered what a person who had been attacked by a dementor was like but Rowling never allowed us to 'see' one at close range.
Strangely perhaps tho I suffer from both depression and anxiety I did not have any particular problem with the depiction of the Spectres ... possibly because I view it as fantasy
Pullman sure did go on a killing spree at the end of this book. I was quite cross.
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Post by raspberrybullets on Aug 21, 2014 9:27:38 GMT
Joss Whedon says there is no point killing off people you are not invested in. If you want to get a good reaction out of an audience and make them feel something you do the unexpectd and kill the ones they care about etc.
But man who does not want to throttle that damned witch? I find it so aggravating that she kills him for such a complete, utter, non reason.
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Post by Miisa on Aug 22, 2014 13:54:00 GMT
Rb, the fear projection thing you are thinking of is probably the boggarts from the HP series, as in Harry's case one became like a dementor.
I only just finished book 2, but I would guess that the idea is that spectres in smaller numbers or single ones don't cause such sudden "soul death", but instead dread, anxiety and despair, and that that is the way they are normally in our world. Much like being around dementors without actual physical contact. The dementor's "kiss", otoh, is deadly in itself.
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Post by juju on Aug 22, 2014 15:04:10 GMT
I agree. I read the Spectres as exactly that - dread, anxiety and depression - but which will never ever leave, so that's the horror of it. I suppose it seemed far too like my own recent experience of depression at the time, so the thought of having that forever and ever was terrifying.
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Post by Moose on Aug 29, 2014 20:23:01 GMT
They do not bother me so much. I am still reading book three slowly will post more thoughts when I finish trilogy
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