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Post by tangent on Jun 29, 2015 9:00:37 GMT
Greece owes €323 bn, mostly to European banks, some of which must be paid back tomorrow. Greek banks will be closed all week as people try to draw out their money. Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras has called for a referendum on Sunday. Does anyone see a happy ending to this crisis or will there be chaos?
Meanwhile, Thomas Cook and others are trying to sell cheap holidays in Greece.
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Post by Kye on Jun 29, 2015 12:40:47 GMT
My ex husband and his girlfriend are in Greece right now. (But it was planned long before the present crisis.) I hope they don't get caught up in anything nasty.
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Post by Moose on Jun 29, 2015 15:31:01 GMT
Probably nearly as hard a sell as Tunisia atm (and I don't mean that to sound snide or in bad taste. i feel very sorry for ordinary Tunisians whose livelihoods are dependent on tourism... tourism which is effectively going to vanish, at least for the next few years)
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Post by Mari on Jun 29, 2015 17:15:56 GMT
Which is ridiculous, because that it happened once does not mean it will happen again.
Re: Greece: Europe can't really afford to kick them out since Greece owes them so much money and declaring them bankrupt means you'll never see the money again. Similarly Greece needs Europe and their money. I think the whole referendum thing is a strategic move from the head of state who can't deliver on his election promises and knows he can't and now he tries to put the ball back in the court of the people knowing that whatever happens he'll have covered his butt.
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Post by JoeP on Jun 29, 2015 20:32:05 GMT
Kicking Greece out of the euro isn't the same as declaring them bankrupt, though. It's basically saying that Greece's policies are dragging the euro down and they don't meet the criteria for inclusion any more. Even while Greece is in the euro it can have debts in pounds and dollars and so on. If it leaves the euro, it can still have debts denominated in euros.
The really big risk is the IMF and/or the ECB and whoever the other big lenders are declaring they are in default. Then they wouldn't be able to get any more loans, wouldn't be able to pay public sector staff, wouldn't be able to do foreign exchange, etc.
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Post by kingedmund on Jun 29, 2015 21:20:59 GMT
I was wondering what this was all about.
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Post by tangent on Jun 30, 2015 0:23:11 GMT
I was wondering what this was all about. Is this not a burning issue on American TV?
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Post by Mari on Jul 1, 2015 15:17:05 GMT
Kicking Greece out of the euro isn't the same as declaring them bankrupt, though. It's basically saying that Greece's policies are dragging the euro down and they don't meet the criteria for inclusion any more. Even while Greece is in the euro it can have debts in pounds and dollars and so on. If it leaves the euro, it can still have debts denominated in euros. Still, Greece can't really afford leaving the EU either: it would mean revising a lot of structures, both economically and socially which will take a lot of time and money they just don't have.
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Post by tangent on Jul 2, 2015 2:44:29 GMT
I think they realise it would be catastrophic for them if they left the euro.
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Post by Fr. Gruesome on Jul 3, 2015 8:54:29 GMT
The heart of the problem is that economic dishonesty in endemic in Greek culture. They cannot go on expecting other people to pay for a life-style that is unsustainable. What a tragedy.
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Post by JoeP on Jul 3, 2015 10:30:37 GMT
Are you suggesting they should be more Stoic?
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Post by Fr. Gruesome on Jul 3, 2015 14:28:49 GMT
You naughty chap!
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Post by tangent on Jul 3, 2015 14:59:51 GMT
That comment goes over my head.
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Post by tangent on Jul 5, 2015 19:47:03 GMT
It's looking more like a Greek default as Greece votes NO by 61% to 39% in the referendum. That's a very definite result.
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Post by Moose on Jul 5, 2015 19:55:40 GMT
So what are the implications of that?
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Post by tangent on Jul 6, 2015 0:32:33 GMT
Greece will plunge into depression, George Osborne will use it to justify his £12 billion cuts to the welfare budget and the Euro will be shaken but not stirred.
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Post by spaceflower on Jul 6, 2015 16:44:48 GMT
Kicking Greece out of the euro isn't the same as declaring them bankrupt, though. It's basically saying that Greece's policies are dragging the euro down and they don't meet the criteria for inclusion any more. Even while Greece is in the euro it can have debts in pounds and dollars and so on. If it leaves the euro, it can still have debts denominated in euros. The really big risk is the IMF and/or the ECB and whoever the other big lenders are declaring they are in default. Then they wouldn't be able to get any more loans, wouldn't be able to pay public sector staff, wouldn't be able to do foreign exchange, etc. Greece did not meet the criteria for the euro zone to begin with. Falsified statistics. And the rulers of EU knew that. But they wanted to have Greece in the euro zone at all costs. And those banks giving Greec loans, they counted on EU bailing Greece out. And now the taxpayers of Germany and other countries with good economies have to pay the price. The Greeks themselves suffer most. But they brought it on themselves by corruption. This is what happens when people don't want to pay taxes. And don't think the euro was a good idea to begin with. The economies are too different.
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Post by kingedmund on Jul 10, 2015 3:48:29 GMT
I was wondering what this was all about. Is this not a burning issue on American TV? Nope. Most Americans really don't care.
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Post by kingedmund on Jul 10, 2015 3:51:53 GMT
They really don't show anything on it here. A few excerpts and on to what happened in Alabama or some school drama issue or something.
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Post by robert on Aug 8, 2015 13:14:16 GMT
Kicking Greece out of the euro isn't the same as declaring them bankrupt, though. It's basically saying that Greece's policies are dragging the euro down and they don't meet the criteria for inclusion any more. Even while Greece is in the euro it can have debts in pounds and dollars and so on. If it leaves the euro, it can still have debts denominated in euros. The really big risk is the IMF and/or the ECB and whoever the other big lenders are declaring they are in default. Then they wouldn't be able to get any more loans, wouldn't be able to pay public sector staff, wouldn't be able to do foreign exchange, etc. Whether they are kicked our of the Eurozone, decide to leave or are left with even stricter austerity measures, it is going to be a rough road for Greece. Though if they leave the Euro and go back to the drachma, while the debt is still there, their currency, the drachma, won't necessarily reflect that debt intrinsically; since Greece will be issuing its own currency. But the drachma will be immediately devalued as a result of international debt with the Eurozone and will probably result in an even larger trade deficit than they have now; which I am not sure they could as easily recover from as compared to agreeing to austerity measures.
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