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Post by Moose on Jun 30, 2016 19:03:30 GMT
So, Boris, who was the hot tip for PM , has apparently pulled out of the race after Michael Gove announced his intention to stand. Quite frankly I can't say that I fancy either of them as my unelected representative and it's a question of which would be worse I think. What do people think?
Basically, our two main political parties are both in complete chaos. Great.
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Post by whollygoats on Jun 30, 2016 20:03:49 GMT
I don't know enough to offer up any kind of informed opinion. I don't even know a thing about Gove. What I've heard of Boris is...well...not particularly encouraging.
And the two main political parties....are the 'two main' still the Tories and the Whigs?
And what's the deal with Corbyn? Why is he on the outs, all the sudden? Just who is it whose panties are in a bunch, any way?
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Post by juju on Jun 30, 2016 21:58:11 GMT
Whigs disappeared in the 18th century. Candidates for the leader of the Conservatives/Tories (and thus automatically Prime Minister as the Tories are currently in power) are: Theresa May: Thatcher lite, hates the Human Rights Act. Think Dolores Umbridge. Michael Gove: Deeply unpopular when he was Eduaction Secretary. Jumped on the Brexit bandwagon, stabbed Boris in the back. Looks like Pob: Stephen Crabb: Thinks homosexuality can be cured Liam Fox: already been done for dodgy practice Some woman no one's heard of. My confidence is not inspired.
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Post by juju on Jun 30, 2016 22:07:07 GMT
On the subject of Corbyn: Corbyn is our version of Benie Sanders, I guess. He's a man of intergrity who has been massively popular with grassroots Labour supporters but sadly not his parliamentary colleagues (mostly Blairites) who conspired to mount a coup against him. Sadly, the press either ignore or revile him for being old school Labour, and not photogenic or charismatic. He doesn't play the game and can't be bought. Sadly therefore, he's probably not going to win a general election.
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Post by Moose on Jun 30, 2016 22:14:16 GMT
I thought May was pro EU?
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Post by juju on Jun 30, 2016 22:35:50 GMT
I thought May was pro EU? She was pro Remain but now she's keen on a swift Brexit.
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Post by Moose on Jun 30, 2016 23:02:17 GMT
The Mail is backing here. That is one good reason not to
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Post by whollygoats on Jul 1, 2016 3:00:19 GMT
Whigs disappeared in the 18th century. Yeah, so I'd heard. But the Tories are still around. I just have not been able to keep track of what the other 'major party' is of late...Labour? Liberals? Some misbegotten mash-up of a couple of the smaller parties...what is the latest? Ewwww....It sounds a lot like the howling pack of Reptilians we got up during the primary season.
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Post by whollygoats on Jul 1, 2016 3:01:56 GMT
On the subject of Corbyn: Corbyn is our version of Benie Sanders, I guess. He's a man of intergrity who has been massively popular with grassroots Labour supporters but sadly not his parliamentary colleagues (mostly Blairites) who conspired to mount a coup against him. Sadly, the press either ignore or revile him for being old school Labour, and not photogenic or charismatic. He doesn't play the game and can't be bought. Sadly therefore, he's probably not going to win a general election. Yes, I think you analogy with Sanders is apt. That would make Blair the analogy to Bill Clinton.....also apt. Both sell-outs.
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Post by tangent on Jul 6, 2016 16:51:02 GMT
(Theresa May] was pro Remain but now she's keen on a swift Brexit. I suspect parliamentarians are starting to think of Brexit as a runaway train that can't be stopped and are therefore getting on the bandwagon.
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Post by whollygoats on Jul 6, 2016 19:37:44 GMT
(Theresa May] was pro Remain but now she's keen on a swift Brexit. I suspect parliamentarians are starting to think of Brexit as a runaway train that can't be stopped and are therefore getting on the bandwagon. Which is ironic, because, as I understand it, at least, they are the only ones with the ability to pull the cord and bring the train to a stop.
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Post by juju on Jul 6, 2016 20:25:53 GMT
I suspect parliamentarians are starting to think of Brexit as a runaway train that can't be stopped and are therefore getting on the bandwagon. Which is ironic, because, as I understand it, at least, they are the only ones with the ability to pull the cord and bring the train to a stop. What should happen (IMO): a panel of impartial economic and legal experts and negotiators should thoroughly examine the situation and advise the government on how best to proceed. If that means strongly advising against Brexit then there should be a cross party decision not to proceed, and to explain to the public what the damage would be and that the campaign promises simply can't be kept - after all, those making the promises have jumped ship anyway. The public needs to be made properly informed about the consequences of Brexit. I suspect (hope) that most people would see sense and see that it would be wrong for politicians to invoke something so damaging if they knew the facts. What will happen: they'll rush ahead with it to appease popular opinion.
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Post by ceptimus on Jul 6, 2016 23:58:45 GMT
I don't think it's possible for a panel of experts to accurately predict any outcome. It's too complicated and there are too many variables.
It would be like a panel of sports pundits predicting the outcome of a match or competition - sure they can choose the favourites, but the favourite isn't always the winner.
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Post by tangent on Jul 7, 2016 13:01:58 GMT
I don't think it's possible for a panel of experts to accurately predict any outcome. It's too complicated and there are too many variables. It would be like a panel of sports pundits predicting the outcome of a match or competition - sure they can choose the favourites, but the favourite isn't always the winner. I take it you mean you don't think it's possible for a panel of experts to accurately predict any economic, social or political outcome as a result of Brexit. There are many situations, for example a race between myself and Usain Bolt, where most experts would be able to correctly predict the outcome. (I would win hands down ) But is it right to compare the Brexit forecast with a sports match? In a match between two teams, there are only three possible outcomes, win, lose and draw. But the Brexit forecast has an infinite range of possibilities, from bankruptcy to world domination.
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Post by juju on Jul 7, 2016 13:47:21 GMT
I think it can be likened to what's happened with the Chilcot report: the enquiry showed that the grounds for proceeding were based on lies and there was no clear plan, hence the horrendous situation in Iraq since then.
I see similarities with Brexit - the decision to leave was based on lies and there is no clear plan for its execution. Without that, surely it would be madness to proceed anyway?
I do believe that there are those well placed to advise on the probable outcomes of *specific* plans. Experts should should be consulted before we sign up to anything.
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Post by tangent on Jul 7, 2016 14:06:24 GMT
I do believe that there are those well placed to advise on the probable outcomes of *specific* plans. Experts should be consulted before we sign up to anything. I agree, if a surgeon were to perform a heart transplant, I would hope he consulted several experts before making the first incision. Unlike the Brexit leaders.
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Post by whollygoats on Jul 8, 2016 0:03:00 GMT
Heh... "Are you thinking what I'm thinking, Pinky?" "Sure, Brain, but you know the latex makes me break out, don't you?" The rise of the Imperious Britannia II....
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