Yuki
Senior members
Posts: 632
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Post by Yuki on Jan 12, 2017 16:11:41 GMT
A great move in my opinion. The fact that there has been no official statement is perfectly understandable, since the authorities wouldn't want to go into direct confrontation with fundamentalists, who are already mobilizing to protest the ban. One prominent fundamentalist figure considered it "unfair" because the authorities should have also banned the bikini, as a "counter balance", according to him. Also, this article is idiotic.
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Post by Moose on Jan 12, 2017 19:52:32 GMT
I dunno - the thing is, I don't like telling women what they CAN'T wear any more than I like telling them what they have to. I'd much prefer if women just voluntarily chose not to wear these garments.
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Post by tangent on Jan 12, 2017 20:24:43 GMT
I'd much prefer if women just voluntarily chose not to wear these garments. I'd prefer it if men just stopped telling women to wear them. We have bans on wearing certain clothes in Britain: - A person may not imitate a police officer by wearing a police uniform
- Paramilitary groups may not wear political uniforms when marching
- Some countries ban the wearing of masks in public and in the UK, during the 2011 anti-austerity protests, police ordered people wearing masks to take them off
In addition, I suggest that a law that insists a person wears at least some clothing is essentially the same as a law that insists that a person cannot wear certain clothing.
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Post by Moose on Jan 12, 2017 20:40:01 GMT
The trouble is that when you ban something, you run the risk that people will actually choose to wear/use/whatever that item just to stick two fingers up at the authorities. I think it explains why there are a lot of women who wear full head coverings in the UK, even though they don't have to.
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Post by tangent on Jan 13, 2017 1:26:55 GMT
Maybe so but I don't mind that if it's the wearer's choice. I'm more concerned about the security risks at airports.
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Yuki
Senior members
Posts: 632
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Post by Yuki on Jan 13, 2017 15:22:19 GMT
I dunno - the thing is, I don't like telling women what they CAN'T wear any more than I like telling them what they have to. I'd much prefer if women just voluntarily chose not to wear these garments. Fist of all, the law applies to both men and women. It just so happens that women are generally the ones who wear clothing that covers the whole body, including the face, due to religious extremist ideas. So in fact, banning burka establishes more equality between men and women, since neither can be subjected to extremist interpretations of Islam or Judaism which force women specifically to cover themselves completely. Thus, a law banning burka is the absolute opposite of a law banning women, and only women, from driving in Saudi Arabia., contrary to what The Independent article says. Second of all, there are good reasons to believe that criminals (who are often men) can use the burka to carry out their activities, including terrorist activities. Certainly there are women who choose to wear the burka or niqab, because they're convinced that it's their religious duty, without anyone in their family forcing them to do so (my aunt for example). But that's simply the consequence of the spread of fundamentalist religious ideas, and allowing full-cover (burka or niqab) for women would only encourage the spread of these ideas. Many Muslim scholars, even some fundamentalist ones, do not consider burka or niqab to be an obligation, and some of them even consider it un-Islamic. So this practice cannot be protected under the pretext of religious freedom.
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Post by Moose on Jan 14, 2017 2:29:35 GMT
Greg I am not entirely in agreement. I do not know how it is in Morocco but I do know that in this country many young girls choose to wear a full veil as a type of defiance against anyone who tells them that they must not (excluding, ironically, members of their community who might encourage it). If it's banned, here at least, I think that a lot more Muslim women will take to wearing in because they will see the ban as being anti-Islamic. That pains me because it is not an anti-Islamic thing but it won't stop them doing it.
Ironic isn't it? In some parts of the world women are forced to be fully veiled on pain of a beating or worse if they refuse. And in some they will cover up because they think that they are being 'defiant' by doing so. I wonder what all the young girls who cover up in this country would feel if they were forced to live in Saudi Arabia or Yemen for a year.
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Post by tangent on Jan 14, 2017 10:42:29 GMT
I do know that in this country many young girls choose to wear a full veil as a type of defiance against anyone who tells them that they must not. Is this actually the case? I've not heard of this and I don't know any Muslims so I wouldn't know. I imagine they like to wear it as a badge of honour but again, I don't know anyone who does this.
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Post by kingedmund on Jan 22, 2017 15:44:08 GMT
Well anybody living in those countries for a year including me probably wouldn't survive. Especially me!
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Post by kingedmund on Jan 22, 2017 15:50:19 GMT
I do know that in this country many young girls choose to wear a full veil as a type of defiance against anyone who tells them that they must not. Is this actually the case? I've not heard of this and I don't know any Muslims so I wouldn't know. I imagine they like to wear it as a badge of honour but again, I don't know anyone who does this. I deal with a lot of them. Some are nice. Some are Islamic it all the way. I've had a few tell me that the issues wouldn't happen over their country because we cut off their hand . I also had one in our class that she refused to do any of the group projects because men were involved. Not sure how easy it is for her to choose classes that women teach. I've had one of them tell me one of these days we will outnumber you Christians and all I asked for is if he had life insurance since he was a client. Interesting thing is they think that's gambling. And he told me he only has car insurance because it required in this country. Do they not have a car insurance over those countries?
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Post by Moose on Jan 25, 2017 23:10:44 GMT
I presume that they do have car insurance, yes, though I might be wrong. I've never encountered any Muslims who were particularly hostile, even when living in a town - Crawley - that had a very large Muslim population. I am not saying that there aren't those that are, obviously but then ... there are a load of people who are anti anything you can think of really and we don't judge the entire population for that (I would not judge all white people if I met one white homophobe, for instance).
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