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Post by juju on Sept 21, 2017 7:02:55 GMT
Yeah, that's weird. I didn't know we had seventh day Adventism here - it's certainly not very well known. But then I don't really pay attention to people selling/proselytising in the street so I don't know where they're from.
The Welsh have a big history of Nonconformism, (which resulted in lots of very dour looking little chapels everywhere), so there may be more 'fringe' groups too - I've also noticed there are Mormons and SJW here.
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Post by JoeP on Sept 21, 2017 15:25:03 GMT
There's a fair number of dour looking little Welsh people around the country, too.
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Post by Moose on Sept 21, 2017 20:01:02 GMT
I don't think I've ever had an attempt, unless you count the occasional door knocker.
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Post by tangent on Sept 22, 2017 19:55:30 GMT
Two young females who were Mormons tried to get me interested one day. I just said that Joseph Smith was a complete nutcase. It was a bit harsh and it upset them so I think a kinder approach would have been better.
I'm not sure why this is in the Vegetarianism thread.
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Post by whollygoats on Sept 22, 2017 21:00:45 GMT
Two young females who were Mormons tried to get me interested one day. I just said that Joseph Smith was a complete nutcase. It was a bit harsh and it upset them so I think a kinder approach would have been better. I'm not sure why this is in the Vegetarianism thread. Adventists, tangent. They're vegetarians. They are basically the inventors of TVP, a meat replacement. And, your assessment of Joseph Smith was factual, so I don't think you were 'harsh' at all. I suppose you could have told them, "No, thanks, you are not vegetarians and my ancestors are all saved already." But it might have crushed their little aberrant souls. Female missionaries? Or local converts? Were they Americans? I know it used to be that the mission was required only of young males. I heard that over the past fifty years, more and more young female Mormons have taken on the challenge of going overseas 'on mission', but I'd never run across a pair of Mormonettes. It must be tough flogging the cult when the target knows anything at all about the Church of the Latter Day Saints or Smith (the bounder). Of course, the rumor here is that they use their handsome and healthy daughters to lure new blood in to the tithing rolls through conversion by marriage.
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Post by Moose on Sept 24, 2017 18:54:16 GMT
I made the mistake of telling two mormons who came to my door one day that I disagreed vehemently with their theology. That was a mistake cos they immediately took it as an invitation to start a conversation. Eventually I just said 'no thanks.'
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Post by whollygoats on Sept 24, 2017 20:38:36 GMT
Heh. I haven't had any doorbell-ringers in a while. That seems to be limited to the Witless and the Morons. There is an LDS church right here in the neighborhood and a temple across town, so I don't think they feel that missions to save the likes of me is very worthwhile, as they are likely very near maximum saturation. The Witless, on the other hand, seem to be getting pretty thin with the boots on the ground these days. I haven't seen one of their pathetic little family groups in ages.
Other than the door-to-door proselytizers, we get street-corner pamphleteers (often in company of a 'fire'n'brimstone' streetcorner preacher) who smile and jam printed materials in to your hands. This is what I experienced in Carmarthen and Portmadog. Both in open community-event type situations with lots of milling pedestrians. I had quite a nice chat with the woman in Carmarthen.
The third was my seatmate on the flight to Mann. After we reached cruise elevation, I turned and introduced myself, asking what took him to Mann. His immediate response was to ask if I would like him to pray for me. I, a mite taken aback, passed on the offer, told him I was 'good for the day' (full-up, y'know), and thanked him. Further conversation was a bit strained, but it was a blessedly short flight.
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Post by Moose on Sept 25, 2017 19:35:28 GMT
I don't think I've ever had a stranger offer to pray for me .. at least not in real life (it's happened online before). I'd be a bit taken aback to be honest although I suppose it's a harmless enough thing to ask.
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Post by Elis on Sept 25, 2017 21:05:53 GMT
I was recently told that Jehova's witnesses won't ring your doorbell if they know you're a communist - or poor. We're poor, maybe that's why they've never been here.
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Post by Moose on Sept 25, 2017 21:11:32 GMT
I don't think that they should ring anyone's door - it's offensive. I don't go around trying to convert them into being agnostics.
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Post by tangent on Sept 25, 2017 22:33:51 GMT
I can understand you not liking or even loathing them ringing your doorbell but why is that offensive?
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Post by whollygoats on Sept 25, 2017 23:01:55 GMT
I can understand you not liking or even loathing them ringing your doorbell but why is that offensive? Don't you think it a bit presumptuous that somebody would come to your door, ring your doorbell and then tell you that what you think is rubbish? Is that not 'offensive'?
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Post by tangent on Sept 25, 2017 23:27:06 GMT
It depends how they present themselves. It can be offensive but it doesn't have to be.
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Post by whollygoats on Sept 26, 2017 0:56:28 GMT
You mean that it would be fine with you if an atheist rang your doorbell and asked if you still believed that silly nonsense, and were you, perhaps, ready to finally give it all up for the joys of rational thought and civil living? Because the person ringing the doorbell has all the answers about what you, personally, are doing wrong with your life.
You'd be okay with that?
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Post by tangent on Sept 26, 2017 4:21:25 GMT
I did say it depends how they present themselves.
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Post by whollygoats on Sept 26, 2017 14:23:23 GMT
Interesting. Because I would think it an unsought and presumptuous imposition upon my time, accompanied by a set of entirely untenable presuppositions on the part of the missionaries which are seemingly tailored to offend the quarry. It is one of the reasons I hang a sign outside my door that says "GO AWAY". It matters not 'how they present themselves'.
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Post by Kye on Sept 26, 2017 14:51:21 GMT
Wow, people are really different! It's a good thing we're not required to change each other's minds!
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Post by tangent on Sept 26, 2017 16:09:36 GMT
Depending on how a person presents themselves, I would liken a person knocking on my door to a person approaching me in the street or handing me a leaflet for a political party. If the political party were the revolting English Defence League, the approach or the leaflet would be most unwelcome but I would not call their activities offensive. How could I? We have the freedom of belief and they have the freedom to belong to the revolting English Defence League. I would find the idea of banning, or even dissuading all advertising on the grounds that some of it might be offensive quite unwholesome.
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Post by whollygoats on Sept 26, 2017 17:35:49 GMT
I'd say that 'approaching me in the street' and 'knocking on my door' are two very different circumstances. The second involves a calculated invasion of my property to monopolize my time to tell me that I'm living my life wrong, according to their views. It is unwelcome because it is offensive. 'On the street' is in the public realm and all manner of expressions may press themselves on my sensibilities...Such is the nature of public life. My front door, however, is not a public forum.
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Post by Elis on Sept 26, 2017 21:10:14 GMT
I am often approached in the streets by people from WWF, Unicef, ASB, BUND and loads of other organizations who try to talk people into signing something right there and then, agreeing to pay a certain sum of money for at least a year. I hate that because they don't simply take no for an answer. Or Christians who want to convert me and simply don't believe me when I tell them I'm already one if them because I fail to use some very specific vocabulary. I hate that because usually I have to be rude to finally be left alone. I would also struggle with people ringing at our door, but we're on the 3rd floor so we can choose to say no before they come upstairs. Some nasty people do that with elderly people to sell them expensive subscriptions or mobile phone contracts they don't need. Mainly for that reason sometimes I wonder if it should be forbidden. But at the end of they day nobody forces me to talk to these people or to open my door to them and evwn on the street, the worst that has happened was me walking away and some guy from one of those charity organizations shouting at me that I shouldn't just walk away. I find it difficult because of my anxiety, but most people don't seem to have a big problem with that.
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Post by Moose on Sept 26, 2017 21:35:04 GMT
Gotta go with Kelly on this one. Would you appreciate Satanists at your door Steve, telling you they'd pray to Satan for you and shoving literature into your hands? Would you, since you mentioned them, appreciate the EDL at your door?
Personally, I don't want anyone knocking on my door who I have not specifically invited to do so or who has a legitimate legal right to be there (police, fire brigade etc). I do not appreciate religious or political callers and I would not do the same to them.
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Post by Moose on Sept 26, 2017 21:36:52 GMT
Claudia - chuggers, as they are known here (charity muggers) are quite a problem. These people get a commission for every person that they sign up, which is why they are so persistent. I used to naively think that they were good people who genuinely wanted to help out the charity in question. Actually, they are vultures trying to get people's money.
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Post by whollygoats on Sept 26, 2017 23:11:05 GMT
I live at the origin point of initiative and referendum on local governance; the petition is a huge way of life in my state. Yet, I gave up signing petitions for political changes by petitioning for ballot box changes because more powerful interests came to manipulate the petition and referendum process with money and lies. It got so disgusting, I even refused to support issues I might have otherwise. It has since become not only more vicious and competitive amongst signature-gatherers, I note in a traveller warning, that faux 'petitioners' (like Save The Interplanetary Ungulates!) are used by scammers to waylay travelers so pickpockets and thieves can pillage and plunder.
These people are most likely NOT VEGETARIANS. I suspect that they are pillaging and plundering so they can eat meat!
They say they are here to 'serve humanity'...
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Post by Miisa on Sept 27, 2017 8:00:41 GMT
On vegetarianism/veganism, I saw this today: Vegans and vegetarians think they don't kill animals but they doAnother issue that I heard of recently that I had not previously taken into account is that if we get rid of all our domesticated animals, we loose a primary source of our fertilizers, meaning all fertilizers will have to be made synthetically, which in turn is not as environmentally friendly as people often think.
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Post by tangent on Sept 27, 2017 22:47:09 GMT
Would you, since you mentioned them, appreciate the EDL at your door? If a mild-mannered man came to my door and said something like the following, I would not be offended in the slightest. "Hello, I wonder if I could have just two minutes of your time. I represent the English Defence League and I'm calling to see if you might be interested in our local activities. I won't keep you, I just want to give you one of our leaflets and you can contact us at the number on the leaflet if you have any questions. Thank you for your time." On the other hand, if a Christian harassed me with the treatment Claudia described, I would certainly be offended. As far as I'm concerned, the presentation determines whether I would be offended, not the end product.
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Post by whollygoats on Sept 27, 2017 23:24:43 GMT
Hmmm... Your mild-mannered EDL guy really had no need to ring your doorbell and await your arrival at the door in order to speak to you in person, did he? He could have just left the leaflet and been done with it, moving on to drop-leaflet as many households as possible in as short a time as possible. So, why door-knock, or bell-ring?
Which, by the way, happens quite often at my doorstep. I get frequent (like multiple times per year) leaflets from a nearby 'community church' to come attend services there. This is NOT the same thing as knocking on my door and taking my time actually attempting to convert me because what I believe is not what they believe and therefore I am not only wrong, I am invariably going to suffer dire consequences unless I convert to their thinking. I can quickly peruse the leaflet and summarily recycle it in the bin inside the door with the rest of the bumfodder.
Should I consider drop-leaflets to be conversion attempts? Mayhaps this is more pernicious than I originally assumed?
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Post by whollygoats on Sept 27, 2017 23:59:57 GMT
*I've just been waiting to correctly use the term 'bumfodder'*
Strangely satisfying.
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Post by tangent on Sept 28, 2017 22:37:20 GMT
Hmmm... Your mild-mannered EDL guy really had no need to ring your doorbell and await your arrival at the door in order to speak to you in person, did he? He could have just left the leaflet and been done with it, moving on to drop-leaflet as many households as possible in as short a time as possible. So, why door-knock, or bell-ring? Why the door-knock? It was just an example of something that I would be considered inoffensive. I'd rather not get too involved in dissecting the example because I usually give examples to clarify my point. Is my point not clear? The approach can be offensive or inoffensive regardless of the end-product. I think you're saying that you would reserve your offence until you had examined the end-product. That's fine, we can each be offended (or not) by different things. But that makes my original question to Jo a proper one. I asked Jo, "I can understand you not liking or even loathing them ringing your doorbell but why is that offensive?" In my opinion, if a person can be offended or not by the approach regardless of end-product, the action of ringing the doorbell is innocuous enough not to be considered offensive. But if Jo is a person like yourself who takes offence at the end-product regardless of the approach, Jo must wait until she has examined the end-product before she can decide whether to take offence. In both cases, I submit that ringing the doorbell, as of itself, is not normally something that one would take offence to. Unless, of course, there is a large notice next to it saying "please do not ring the doorbell."
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Post by whollygoats on Sept 29, 2017 0:03:35 GMT
Got it.
Fraud, incest, bigotry, greed, hate; all couched in easy, friendly terms. You never know until you allow them to take twenty minutes of your time at your doorstep.
If they're nice, they might have cookies. You never know.
I'll send them your way.
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Post by Moose on Sept 29, 2017 21:56:52 GMT
I do not want the EDL at my doorstep no matter how well mannered they are. And .. ask yourself this .. if the EDL came to your door and you opened it and you were black, what do you think they would do/say?
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