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Post by Moose on Jun 14, 2023 1:38:25 GMT
I do not know what will happen to Trump - perhaps nothing at all, in a legal sense (maybe a fine he will not pay). But I want to know that history will remember what this man is and was, what he did. The images of him in court are going to persist for as long as humans do, I think.
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Post by tangent on Jun 14, 2023 7:53:13 GMT
Many of his followers genuinely believe that a Deep State exists that is conspiring to (a) squash opposition to the establishment, (b) invent trumped up (!) charges and (c) focus on legalities whilst ignoring his rivals wrong doings. Deep State is led by a conglomerate of the FBI, the US government and the justice system. The conspiracies are fuelled by the right-wing media, the major players of whom are only in it for the money and, of course, Trump himself.
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Post by Moose on Jun 15, 2023 1:10:49 GMT
Sigh. There's not a lot to say to such people.
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Post by juju on Jun 19, 2023 10:11:17 GMT
Trump supporters are a cult, now. I don't think there's anything that could change their views, they're too mentally invested. Every attempt to bring him to justice is going to strengthen his argument that it's all a witch hunt.
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Post by Moose on Jun 20, 2023 0:21:42 GMT
It seems that he is likely to be offered a plea deal. Of course.
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Post by tangent on Jun 20, 2023 13:26:39 GMT
America seems to like plea deals. There are two main theories of punishment according to Wikipedia, (a) everyone gets the punishment they deserve, and (b) individuals get the punishment that is most likely to act as a deterrent to further crime. It would appear that America favours the second theory, hence the plea deal.
In any case, I'm not sure I like America's cruel attitude to long harsh punishment and in my opinion it's better that justice is done, justice is seen to be done and that the sentence acts as a deterrent to further crime. We shall have to see whether that applies to Trump's situation.
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Post by whollygoats on Jun 20, 2023 15:42:39 GMT
In the US, Justice is a whore. Those with money pay for their justice. Those without money get no justice. It's that simple.
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Post by Moose on Jun 21, 2023 0:14:17 GMT
Sometimes long harsh punishments is justified. Often it is not, of course. In Trump's case, I think it would be.
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Post by tangent on Jun 21, 2023 9:00:54 GMT
Nevertheless, if America favours plea bargains, I'm saying that what he deserves is irrelevant. What is appropriate is the set of all presidents who store secret documents in their own homes in the expectation that the sentence will deter future presidents from doing the same thing. A long sentence would not achieve a better result than a short sentence. And since Joe Biden also stored secret documents in his garage, if he is convicted he should receive a comparable sentence to Trump. That's how I understand American justice to operate. What he deserves is irrelevant.
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Post by whollygoats on Jun 21, 2023 14:55:53 GMT
Nevertheless, if America favours plea bargains, I'm saying that what he deserves is irrelevant. What is appropriate is the set of all presidents who store secret documents in their own homes in the expectation that the sentence will deter future presidents from doing the same thing. A long sentence would not achieve a better result than a short sentence. And since Joe Biden also stored secret documents in his garage, if he is convicted he should receive a comparable sentence to Trump. That's how I understand American justice to operate. What he deserves is irrelevant. Then you don't understand American justice at all. And, you don't understand the differences in intent. Both Biden and Pence were found to have inappropriate documents, by their own staff. Whereupon the federal authorities were informed, invited to do a further search, and all documents were handed over forthwith. Trump did NOT do that. He stole the documents. Knowingly, not inadvertantly. His intent was to hide the documents, deny that he had possession, and proceed to show them to all sorts of unauthorized individuals. That's a BIG fucking difference. Trump put intelligence personnel at risk and allowed unauthorized access to all sorts of sensitive intelligence to potential adversaries. What Trump deserves is to be strung up by his tiny nuts and made a ridiculous spectacle of pathetic loser stupidity. Or, like they used to do to spies, face the firing squad. The irony of the whole situation is that he will be prosecuted under the newer, more severe, law that he signed into being in his attempt to jail Hillary Clinton. What a stupid fuckwit. I hope he dies in a federal prison. He deserves it.
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Post by tangent on Jun 22, 2023 18:05:01 GMT
Then you don't understand American justice at all. I don't see any incompatibility between what I'm saying and what you're saying. You're expressing your feelings and talking about what he deserves, I'm talking about the American justice system. The two are not the same. And, you don't understand the differences in intent. Oh, I do, I've been following this closely.
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Post by JoeP on Jun 22, 2023 18:17:49 GMT
And since Joe Biden also stored secret documents in his garage, if he is convicted he should receive a comparable sentence to Trump. Yes, he should receive a comparable sentence for comparable offences. But at the moment I'm not hearing that Biden is being indicted with 30+ separate counts.
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Post by whollygoats on Jun 23, 2023 12:42:51 GMT
And, you don't understand the differences in intent. Oh, I do, I've been following this closely. Then you're purposefully spouting misinformation. Stop it. Spreading utter bullshit does not befit you.
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Post by tangent on Jun 24, 2023 9:27:30 GMT
You're being a pratt again, WG, your emotions are in control and you're spoiling for a fight. I'm not interested.
I'm only interested in the rationale behind plea bargains, the reduction of sentences and the effect it has on future misdemeanours.
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Post by whollygoats on Jun 24, 2023 13:48:50 GMT
You're being a pratt again, WG, your emotions are in control and you're spoiling for a fight. I'm not interested. I'm only interested in the rationale behind plea bargains, the reduction of sentences and the effect it has on future misdemeanours. Then you're projecting. YOU are the one being a pratt in this exchange. From what I can tell, you are only interested in spreading disinformation. Just like Trump. You must be proud.
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Post by tangent on Jun 25, 2023 7:56:04 GMT
Yeah, yeah, I'm not playing your game.
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Post by whollygoats on Jun 25, 2023 12:06:54 GMT
Yeah, yeah, I'm not playing your game. Of course not. I'm not spreading misinformation. You are.
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Post by Moose on Jun 26, 2023 5:16:16 GMT
You're the one being aggressive and unpleasant here Kelly. I am not playing either and I doubt anyone else is. You can disagree with someone without such hostility. Or .. can you?
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Post by whollygoats on Jun 26, 2023 16:52:41 GMT
Aw, for fuck's sake....
It's the blind leading the blind.
Go ahead. Engage in your mental masturbation to your heart's content, but you will still be wrong and pushing more misinformation out into the internet.
I won't countenance it without calling you out for your utter shite, so you're going to have to deal with me until you ban me.
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