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Post by whollygoats on Apr 2, 2020 14:43:26 GMT
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Post by tangent on Apr 2, 2020 15:31:21 GMT
There's a lot about this article I disagree with. To begin with, it is sponsored by an organisation or an individual who has convinced himself that masks save lives and will say anything to convince you. It is not a scientific article.
The author quotes South Korea, Japan, Singapore and Hong Kong and contrasts them with European countries, India, Iran and America. But as well as having a mask culture, these Asian countries have been exceedingly proactive in controlling the disease. It's not about masks, it's about control.
The official stance is backed by research, not of Covid cases, but of flu in general. Research has shown that masks, worn properly stop the spread of influenza-type viruses but do not protect the wearer. The author speculates that officials have been lying to the public but that is mere speculation without proof. And the quoted link to research is heavily biased towards masks.
I'm not going to give this article any credibility.
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Post by whollygoats on Apr 2, 2020 19:25:48 GMT
Suit yourself.
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Post by whollygoats on Apr 3, 2020 4:00:54 GMT
But if simple masks were deemed useful, though in short supply, there is a potential army of home workers out there - equipped with sewing machines and old tee shirts - ready to manufacture loads of simple masks. I read that this is happening in some countries, but certainly not the UK (yet anyway). Heh...Yeah, plus innovations like 'adapt a thong' and 'convert a maxipad'.
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Post by whollygoats on Apr 3, 2020 4:18:12 GMT
Ouch.A surgeon explains how Covid-19 kills. It is long, at about 35 minutes, with him working at a whiteboard to explain the mechanisms at play.
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Covid-19
Apr 3, 2020 7:09:45 GMT
via mobile
Post by juju on Apr 3, 2020 7:09:45 GMT
I went shopping yesterday - first time in two weeks - I wore a decorating dust mask covered by a scarf. Whether that offered any protection I don't know, but I would feel a lot happier if everyone wore *something*. Any kind of barrier that might trap larger droplets from escaping has to be a good thing.
On the subject of shopping, I was really angry yesterday. I went to the supermarket in our nearest small town and I've never seen it so busy. Weekday mornings are usually really quiet, but the car park was full. People were clearly leaving with one or two items. It's not hard to buy enough shopping to last a week! Just because shopping is one of the only unrestricted activities doesn't mean you should be popping out every day! And a lot of people were not observing distancing. 😡
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Post by JoeP on Apr 3, 2020 7:48:43 GMT
😡 too. So many people are just not being sensible - and that will affect all of us.
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Post by Elis on Apr 3, 2020 11:08:59 GMT
It's not hard to buy enough shopping to last a week! Yes, it is! If you live in a small flat and don't have a car, buying enough shopping that will last for a week is pretty much impossible because only one of us is supposed to go and we have to carry it the whole way home, all of it. If we have to get a bag of washing powder, nappies, onions, potatoes or carrots and two pints of milk, we can't get much more because there is only so much we can carry. And then one shop has run out of one of the items that you need (happens a lot these days) and you need to either buy the expensive version (which we can't afford to do very often) or go to a different shop (and no, I don't mean things like one's favourite biscuits, I mean things like nappies).
I'm sorry to say that because you probaby don't mean people like us and I guess there might be people who go out in their cars just to get their favourite biscuits and some wine or something like that, but I have heard this so often lately: don't go shopping more than once a week or maybe once every two weeks and those who do, are selfish and inconsiderate. No, some of the people who go shopping more than once a week are just poor, don't own a car, a big fridge or an extra freezer and because they have not been hoarding, they need to go to several shops to get essential things they need because those with cars have been buying more than they would need in one week. Generally speaking (not directed at anyone here) I am sick of being judged.
Btw, the park where we take Malcolm now to get some fresh air and practice walking is basically a giant dog toilet, as Frank calls it. Apparently, being considerate does not extend to picking up one's own dog's poop or keeping the dog on a lead so it doesn't run around while the owner is busy talking to a friend and ignores the fact that their dog that is the size of our son is running towards us at full speed. Everyone knows the playgrounds are closed and there is basically no safe space for small children outside. If it doesn't directly concern Covid-19, there is no being considerate of other people. wearing masks because now it has become somehow a hype: yes, please. Picking up my dog's poop so small children who are not allowed to use playgrounds don't step into it or accidentally pick it up: forget abut it. Keeping my big dog on a lead so small children can walk about safely: no way. Watching my neighbours and judging them as soon as they leave the house: of course.
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Post by Kye on Apr 3, 2020 11:33:17 GMT
I live alone, so my weekly shopping trip won't look all that big.
My current problem is the weekend dog drop off. My Tasha works as a nanny for two doctors, so she's at her job Monday to Friday for 8 hours or more. Obviously that's too long for the puppy to be in his crate, so he's with me Monday to Friday. Friday evening she picks him up at my place and walks him to her place (about a 15 minute walk). Then brings him back Monday morning. This is still acceptable in Montreal, but it's rapidly becoming part of the grey zone. Tashy is in withdrawal from her psych meds at the moment and the dog really helps regulate her mood. We're both very diligent in washing our hands before and after the trade off.
But it's such a difficult time and people are so afraid.
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Post by tangent on Apr 3, 2020 11:45:08 GMT
Supermarkets have security officers letting people inside to make sure it doesn't get too crowded. Smaller shops normally have a limit of three people but it's surprising how many people can't count. I'm afraid I can be judgemental at times and I have to stop myself sometimes.
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Covid-19
Apr 3, 2020 12:10:03 GMT
via mobile
Post by juju on Apr 3, 2020 12:10:03 GMT
Elis - I was referring to people turning up in their cars to buy one or two items, like I saw yesterday. In fact most of the shoppers in that store were there in cars as it serves the surrounding villages, and the car park was packed, which was extremely unusual for that store on a weekday. If people are supposed to be shopping as little as possible then surely the car park would be quieter?
I totally understand that some people like yourselves don't have the option of going once a week, but those of us that do, should! No one wants to go to shops packed with people.
Totally agree about the dog mess - as a dog owner the responsible thing is to pick mess up straight away. Most people do here, in fact it's quite socially unacceptable not to (although obviously some still will).
ETA: I'm would never judge anyone in these difficult times, but it was clear that lots of people weren't being fair or considerate to others - using the shop just to get out the house and not being careful about distancing.
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Post by JoeP on Apr 3, 2020 15:09:12 GMT
ETA: I'm would never judge anyone in these difficult times, but it was clear that lots of people weren't being fair or considerate to others - using the shop just to get out the house and not being careful about distancing. What you're saying is you would never judge anyone in these difficult times, except the people who so obviously need judging.
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Post by whollygoats on Apr 3, 2020 15:16:17 GMT
ETA: I'm would never judge anyone in these difficult times, but it was clear that lots of people weren't being fair or considerate to others - using the shop just to get out the house and not being careful about distancing. What you're saying is you would never judge anyone in these difficult times, except the people who so obviously need judging. Yes, yes....That's MY standard operating procedure. It looks as if I'm not alone.
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Covid-19
Apr 3, 2020 21:23:21 GMT
via mobile
Post by Elis on Apr 3, 2020 21:23:21 GMT
Juju, I guess I understand your point. And I didn't feel judged by you, but it's generally annoying and a bit depressing to see how quick many people are to point fingers these days which is why I think I wanted to explain our situation, a different point of view. I don't go to any other forums anymore because of that.
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Post by spaceflower on Apr 3, 2020 21:44:02 GMT
A former politician said on TV today that last time there was a global health crisis, USA was the leader. But now USA does not want to lead the world anymore, "America first".
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Covid-19
Apr 4, 2020 10:23:45 GMT
via mobile
Post by Elis on Apr 4, 2020 10:23:45 GMT
I doubt they could, considering their president.
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Post by spaceflower on Apr 4, 2020 21:13:37 GMT
If you're in a risk group, stay home. If you can work from home, do it. But what about the homeless? They can't stay at home b/c they have no home. I suppose most of them are mentally ill and/or addicts. There are hostel but they don't get a room of their own there so many refrain for fear of being robbed. The City Mission have group activities (cancelled now), food, showers and washing machines. But where do they sleep? Tents in the forest?
My daughter Saga takes her daily walk with her camera, taking pictures to post on Instagram. But she is a bit afraid of the homeless, they are the only people she sees. What if they should rob her?
One day she saw the homeless at King's Cross. Who give them money now that people don't move about in the city? She had 2 pounds and gave it to a young man who looked miserable. She continued her walk. After a while she returned to the same place and he asked her for money to go to a hostel for the night. "I have already given you two pounds", she said. But nobody else gives me anything, he said. He was shaking (for cold?). She went to a cash machine and withdrew 10 pounds and gave him. Even though she is unemployed and sorely misses meeting her friends, there are other much worse off.
Maybe he just used your money to alcohol or drugs, I said. "Then he would die", she said, "he was really in bad shape".
Another day she met a policeman who questioned what she was doing. "I'm taking my daily walk", she said. "With a camera?" he said. Well, this is not forbidden, is it. He asked where she lived and said she was too far away from her home. Is there a limit how far you may walk? She said she felt he was really smug, having this power.
So now she is afraid both of the homeless and of the police. "It's like living in a dictatorship." She really hates living cooped up in the apartment. Going out is necessary for one's health.
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Post by Moose on Apr 4, 2020 23:06:24 GMT
The other thing is that people without cars CAN'T buy a week's shopping. Col has to walk an hour's round trip to get our groceries. Carrying a week's worth back is just not possible.
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Post by tangent on Apr 4, 2020 23:36:32 GMT
If you're in a risk group, stay home. If you can work from home, do it. But what about the homeless? They can't stay at home b/c they have no home. The plight of homeless people has been discussed in Parliament and there has been a move to give them temporary homes in hotels. Heathrow Airport is now sheltering 200 homeless people.
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Covid-19
Apr 5, 2020 7:20:38 GMT
via mobile
Post by juju on Apr 5, 2020 7:20:38 GMT
The other thing is that people without cars CAN'T buy a week's shopping. Col has to walk an hour's round trip to get our groceries. Carrying a week's worth back is just not possible. Did you read my second post, Jo? I explained I was referring to people turning up in their cars for one or two items. My point was that if people are supposed to be shopping less frequently, how come the car park /shop was more full than I’ve ever seen it?
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Post by whollygoats on Apr 5, 2020 20:41:57 GMT
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Covid-19
Apr 5, 2020 21:27:38 GMT
via mobile
Post by juju on Apr 5, 2020 21:27:38 GMT
In only have a sanding dust mask but I combine it with a scarf. Every little helps.
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Post by whollygoats on Apr 5, 2020 23:05:44 GMT
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Post by Elis on Apr 6, 2020 11:46:29 GMT
I seriously can't find affordable masks at the moment. There is a website which offers one for a 20 € donation, but I'm afraid that is not what I see as "affordable".
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Covid-19
Apr 6, 2020 14:29:19 GMT
via mobile
Post by juju on Apr 6, 2020 14:29:19 GMT
I’m using the decorating masks we’ve had for ages - I use them when I sand down boards for painting. A couple of weeks ago I bought some more sandpaper but there were no masks available then from the DIY shop - I guess everyone had the same idea.
They probably have very little effectiveness but combined with a scarf I’m hoping they’ll help a little.
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Post by whollygoats on Apr 6, 2020 14:41:50 GMT
Uh....If you open my last link, you will find three sets of instructions, promulgated by the CDC, for making masks with household items.
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Post by spaceflower on Apr 6, 2020 14:53:53 GMT
Besides from the "Swedish" homeless there are also the Romanian gipsies who come here to beg. We don't have any obligations to give them dwelling places but charity organisations help them. The best thing for them is to return to Romania and many of them already have done so. Finland seems to be best prepared. They did not think that all was well when the Cold War was over. You have to prepare for the worst. www.nytimes.com/2020/04/05/world/europe/coronavirus-finland-masks.html
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Post by whollygoats on Apr 6, 2020 18:18:14 GMT
I can't get it to post quite right, so I'll let you folks find the online demo of how to make a mask with half a bra. Requires gluegun.
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Covid-19
Apr 7, 2020 6:59:57 GMT
via mobile
Post by juju on Apr 7, 2020 6:59:57 GMT
Changing the subject slightly, I’ve just been reading about different restrictions in different countries. Some of them seem rather counterproductive- for example, in Serbia they have a designated dog walking hour. So in other words, all dog owners are forced to go out all at the same time? Distancing wise, that makes no sense.
I’m finding it really frustrating and counterproductive not being able to get in the car and drive to places we would normally walk, which are pretty remote and where we would usually not see another soul. By restricting that, it means everyone in our village is forced to use the same walk, which increases the chances of bumping into people. Again, seems to make very little sense.
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Post by whollygoats on Apr 7, 2020 14:11:43 GMT
I agree on both counts, Juju.
People need to keep in mind the bottom line objective: stay at least six feet away from other potentially infected humans. If that is maintained, then nothing need be done. Of course, the easiest means of accomplishing that is to stay home, inside the walls of your domestic fortress. But, even that can be fraught with perils which escaping to the outdoors to wander would be a major blessing.
Remember the Schroedinger's Virus...To protect ourselves, we have to assume that others are infected. To protect others, we have to assume that we are infected vectors.
Has anybody thought that the lone reader may have been escaping a closed and shuttered household with multiple small children and pets in an attempt to regain their sanity, or a stewing and potentially incendiary abusive spouse? For crepes sake, people....If they are alone, leave them alone.
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