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Post by juju on Jul 22, 2024 7:31:54 GMT
I assume Kamala is now a shoo-in, realistically - I wouldn't have thought there'd be time or much will for anything else?
We haven't seen much of her on the international stage so far, but my impressions are that she could run rings round Trump intellectually and in any debate, but that she's not well liked by the electorate. Would that be correct?
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Post by JoeP on Jul 22, 2024 8:04:40 GMT
My impressions are similar. Although running rings around Trump intellectually is not a very high bar.
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Post by tangent on Jul 22, 2024 12:19:50 GMT
Why is she not liked? Is it because she's a woman? Or that she's a woman who can run rings around a number of men? Obviously, being black doesn't help but I assume there is more to it than that.
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Post by JoeP on Jul 22, 2024 19:29:25 GMT
One of things I've heard, but don't fully understand, is that she had a career as a prosecutor, and is therefore somehow against the common people.
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Post by Wholly Goats on Jul 22, 2024 23:06:18 GMT
**deep sigh** 1. No. She is not a 'shoo-in'. She has advanced position because she is, and has been elected to, the position which traditionally steps in to ultimate authority. She has been closer to that office, and those responsibilities, than almost any other. Except, of course, somebody who has held that office itself. The thing is, Biden did not step down as president, but as nominee of his party. This means that the party, at its convention, will need to select and anoint his successor. Biden himself, in his announcement *endorsed* Harris as his successor, but that will have to be ratified by the Democratic Convention in Chicago in August. Between now and then, those in the DP who would rather other banner-carriers be selected as nominees for president and vice-president. This means that Harris is not a 'shoo-in'. She is the dominant one, but there could well be a struggle. Newsome is positioning. Manchin is a boat-rocker. Fat heads in the party have a month to topple her. 2. She is a former federal prosecutor and has done significant amounts of litigation. She speaks forcefully, focused, and intelligently because she was trained in it and practiced it for years. She used those skills to advance in politics in one of the countries largest and richest states, unto Congress, the Senate, and now, Vice President. I would expect her to be able to out-argue Trump any day, and twice on Sundays. Yes, she was a prosecutor. That made her an official functionary of the violence of the state. She acted as the 'hammer of the state' in prosecuting crimes. That one might be 'against the common people' basically assumes that 'common people' are criminals. That 'common people' are more subject to the consequences of dealing with prosecutors says something about the privileges of the uncommon people. And...REMEMBER, her primary opponent will, at this remove, be a convicted felon. Of course he and his minions will struggle to paint her, a prosecutor, as the enemy of the common people, because he, the billionaire is 'the common people's hero'? Really? JoeP...check your sources. 3. Disliked? Jeez...I dunno. That's such a subjective thing. She's been popular enough that she advanced as far as she has. I think of her as a fairly mainline, oldtime, 'big-tent' liberal politicians from rich California. In some corners, she's disliked. People dislike her because she's smart. Because she's educated. Because she's connected. Because she's female. Because she's outspoken. Because she's black...and, one I just learned, because her parents were immigrants. Morons 'dislike' (it's 'hate' here) based upon their moronic standards. She's a corporate tool, but most mainline politicians are. She is ONE SHIPLOAD BETTER THAN THE FELONIOUS ORANGE POS SHE'LL RUN AGAINST. Put up against the ticket of the GOP and their Project 2025 program...I'd vote early for a ticket headed by Harris. Twice on Sundays.
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Post by Moose on Jul 22, 2024 23:20:23 GMT
I don't think that Joe was saying that HE thought that she was an enemy of the people, but simply that some people are saying that (wrongly).
Our right wing media have already started sticking the knife in.
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Post by Wholly Goats on Jul 23, 2024 0:26:17 GMT
**deep sigh** 1. No. She is not a 'shoo-in'. She has advanced position because she is, and has been elected to, the position which traditionally steps in to ultimate authority. She has been closer to that office, and those responsibilities, than almost any other. Except, of course, somebody who has held that office itself. The thing is, Biden did not step down as president, but as nominee of his party. This means that the party, at its convention, will need to select and anoint his successor. Biden himself, in his announcement *endorsed* Harris as his successor, but that will have to be ratified by the Democratic Convention in Chicago in August. Between now and then, those in the DP who would rather other banner-carriers be selected as nominees for president and vice-president can make their case. This means that Harris is not a 'shoo-in'. She is the dominant one, but there could well be a struggle. Newsome is positioning. Manchin is a boat-rocker. Fat heads in the party have a month to topple her. I suspect the American voting public would be reassured to see them come out of convention with a candidate all could support going forward. Harris most likely to assure that. 2. She is a former federal prosecutor and has done significant amounts of litigation. She speaks forcefully, focused, and intelligently because she was trained in it and practiced it for years. She used those skills to advance in politics in one of the countries largest and richest states, unto Congress, the Senate, and now, Vice President. I would expect her to be able to out-argue Trump any day, and twice on Sundays. Yes, she was a prosecutor. That made her an official functionary of the violence of the state. She acted as the 'hammer of the state' in prosecuting crimes. That one might be 'against the common people' basically assumes that 'common people' are criminals. That 'common people' are more subject to the consequences of dealing with prosecutors says something about the privileges of the uncommon people. And...REMEMBER, her primary opponent will, at this remove, be a convicted felon. Of course he and his minions will struggle to paint her, a prosecutor, as the enemy of the common people, because he, the billionaire is 'the common people's hero'? Really? JoeP...check your sources. 3. Disliked? Jeez...I dunno. That's such a subjective thing. She's been popular enough that she advanced as far as she has. I think of her as a fairly mainline, oldtime, 'big-tent' liberal politicians from rich California. In some corners, she's disliked. People dislike her because she's smart. Because she's educated. Because she's connected. Because she's female. Because she's outspoken. Because she's black...and, one I just learned, because her parents were immigrants. Morons 'dislike' (it's 'hate' here) based upon their moronic standards. She's a corporate tool, but most mainline politicians are. She is ONE SHIPLOAD BETTER THAN THE FELONIOUS ORANGE POS SHE'LL RUN AGAINST. Put up against the ticket of the GOP and their Project 2025 program...I'd vote early for a ticket headed by Harris. Twice on Sundays.
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Post by Wholly Goats on Jul 23, 2024 0:28:44 GMT
Sorry, there... I hit the wrong button at the wrong time.
But... I did not mean to intimate that JoeP thought that, just that JoeP should be concerned about the source which led him to think that might be possible.
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Post by Wholly Goats on Jul 23, 2024 0:32:32 GMT
Once again...For those here who would like an informed and intelligent perspective on American political issues from an American, I highly recommend: Beau of the Fifth Column ... I follow him on YouTube at www.youtube.com/@beauofthefifthcolumn He has other access points. He has been in my corner each and every time I've turned to see what he has to say....he's a progressive nestled in the backwoods of MAGA America.
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Post by Moose on Jul 23, 2024 0:39:23 GMT
Thank you, I shall have a look when the TV is off.
Some of the media really are being unpleasant though (well no change there). I try to read a lot of different media sources, left, right, whatever and it can be painful. One paper here has already started alleging that Harris might have a mental disorder.
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Post by Wholly Goats on Jul 23, 2024 1:57:43 GMT
Our right wing media have already started sticking the knife in. Yes...and?
Coprocephalics are gonna do their coprocephalic things.
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Post by Wholly Goats on Jul 23, 2024 2:07:04 GMT
Thank you, I shall have a look when the TV is off. Some of the media really are being unpleasant though (well no change there). I try to read a lot of different media sources, left, right, whatever and it can be painful. One paper here has already started alleging that Harris might have a mental disorder. Well, by now, they have every reason to suspect that each and every USer has a 'mental disorder'.
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Post by Wholly Goats on Jul 23, 2024 2:09:21 GMT
I'm hoping we see the last of the UK's malingering mental disorder.
You folks are going to shake it off, right?
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Post by Moose on Jul 23, 2024 3:43:24 GMT
Do you mean the monarchy? Cos we have a reasonable Left government now.
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Post by JoeP on Jul 23, 2024 6:57:05 GMT
Hey, less **deep sighing** on the forum!
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Post by juju on Jul 23, 2024 7:55:40 GMT
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Post by tangent on Jul 23, 2024 10:52:54 GMT
She's been ringing around delegates getting their support. She's not hanging around waiting for things to fall into place.
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Post by JoeP on Jul 23, 2024 13:35:22 GMT
On a different note, I also feel that there's a weird conspiracy of amnesia about Trump, like people (granted, not everyone) have chosen to forget all the crazy stuff from last time. How can he be this close to the presidency again? Trump supporters like the crazy stuff. It justifies their own crazy feelings. Also, they get force-fed huge amounts of lies from their media sources - funded by the rich donors who would like to see Trump in power. They believe the crazy stuff because it's all they see.
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Post by tangent on Jul 23, 2024 16:05:55 GMT
And when Democrats complain about it, they automatically take the opposite view because, of course, the Democrats are always telling lies.
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Post by Wholly Goats on Jul 23, 2024 16:40:22 GMT
And when Democrats complain about it, they automatically take the opposite view because, of course, the Democrats are always telling lies. That's just the Republicans projecting their own foibles onto their opponents.
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Post by Wholly Goats on Jul 23, 2024 16:46:57 GMT
I'm going to go out on a limb here and speculate that Kamala was never on any of Jeffrey Epstein's travel manifests or guest lists.
Whereas, Donny was repeatedly videotaped engaged in salacious activities in the company of Epstein. But, it's the Dems who are pedophiles....yeah, as if.
If the Republicans are engaged in wholesale slander, what they are probably doing is accusing others of their own faults, so that when theirs come out they can say they are no worse than their opponents. They actively work to lower the standards of behavior to make themselves look 'more acceptable', or, at least, "no worse than those sleezy Democrats we warned you about".
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Post by juju on Jul 23, 2024 16:56:28 GMT
So far, the most unpleasant comments I've read about Kamala are that she slept her way to the top. Because a woman (especially of colour) can't be successful in her own right, right? ๐
Be interesting to see what sort of mud Trump tries to throw. Could even backfire on him.
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Post by Wholly Goats on Jul 23, 2024 17:01:28 GMT
On a different note, I also feel that there's a weird conspiracy of amnesia about Trump, like people (granted, not everyone) have chosen to forget all the crazy stuff from last time. How can he be this close to the presidency again? Trump is actively gas-lighting the American public, repeatedly asserting that his four years as president were the absolute bestest, most wonderful years for the nation. That we were at the pinnacle of greatness and he was the best, and America's favorite, president; and that since Biden has been in office, the country has gone to Hell in a handbasket. I remember the shithead being responsible for nearly 800,000 senseless American deaths due to his administration's neglect and incompetence. I remember him attempting to extort another nation for his own selfish purposes. I will not forgive him for Helsinki. In my book, Trump is a traitor. Trump family hug...
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Post by Wholly Goats on Jul 26, 2024 2:48:35 GMT
Coprocephalic nitwit Trump has bailed on debating Harris. I'd call that chickenshit, but I have too much respect for chickenshit.
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Post by Moose on Jul 26, 2024 3:22:17 GMT
He won't debate her?
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Post by Moose on Jul 26, 2024 3:24:53 GMT
The UK news - just checked - is saying that he won't debate her until she is confirmed as nominee and not that he won't debate her at all. US news might be saying different things though.
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Post by tangent on Jul 26, 2024 11:42:43 GMT
Maybe he's hoping that will give him enough time for his advisors to come up with something.
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Post by juju on Jul 26, 2024 13:09:22 GMT
So the Obamas have now publicly endorsed Kamala. Great, but I wonder why they took this long?
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Post by Moose on Jul 27, 2024 3:09:27 GMT
I wondered that too.
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Post by Mari on Jul 27, 2024 10:40:36 GMT
Perhaps they were hoping for someone else, or waiting to gauge the general opinion first. They are politicians after all, not saints.
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